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Politics Discuss A New Stitch in a Bad Pattern at the Political Forums; A New Stitch in a Bad Pattern September 2, 2008 A McCain ad wrongly claims Obama plans "painful tax increases" ...

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Old 09-04-2008, 01:07 AM
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Default A New Stitch in a Bad Pattern

A New Stitch in a Bad Pattern

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September 2, 2008

A McCain ad wrongly claims Obama plans "painful tax increases" for working families. And who's talking about deficits?

Summary

McCain's new ad puts another stitch in what we've called his pattern of deceit on Obama's tax plan. This one claims Obama and congressional Democrats plan to push forward "painful tax increases on working American families" and that they will bring about "years of deficits," "no balanced budgets" and "billions in new government spending."

The ad is plain wrong about higher taxes on working families. In fact, Obama's economic plan would produce a tax cut for the majority of American households, with middle-income earners benefiting most. As for "years of deficits," exactly the same claim could be made about McCain's program. It's unlikely either Obama or McCain would balance the budget, and both are projected to increase the debt by trillions.


Note: This is a summary only. The full article with analysis, images and citations may be viewed on our Web site:

FactCheck.org: A New Stitch in a Bad Pattern
FactCheck..just keeping them honest..
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Old 09-04-2008, 01:09 AM
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Default Re: A New Stitch in a Bad Pattern

Man Spencer your batting a thousand tonight.
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Old 09-04-2008, 04:22 AM
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Default Re: A New Stitch in a Bad Pattern

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A New Stitch in a Bad Pattern

FactCheck..just keeping them honest..
True and false...

True - Obama plans on keeping Bush's tax cuts which will not increase the payments from the average middle class family...

But here's the false part...Obama will ALSO increase taxes (death tax/capital gains tax/inheritance tax/payroll tax) to pay for his National Heathcare system and other social programs which will result in a net INCREASE...

Saying I won't tax you for "A" sounds nice...But if you include the taxes he'll pound the middle class with "B, C, D, and E", you'll find that "A" sounds a helluva lot less promising...
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Old 09-04-2008, 09:57 AM
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Default Re: A New Stitch in a Bad Pattern

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
True and false...

True - Obama plans on keeping Bush's tax cuts which will not increase the payments from the average middle class family...

But here's the false part...Obama will ALSO increase taxes (death tax/capital gains tax/inheritance tax/payroll tax) to pay for his National Heathcare system and other social programs which will result in a net INCREASE...

Saying I won't tax you for "A" sounds nice...But if you include the taxes he'll pound the middle class with "B, C, D, and E", you'll find that "A" sounds a helluva lot less promising...
This shows you know NOTHING of Obama's plan. Good effort though. Nice way to mindless spew non-facts. They (top economists/factcheck) have proven that it's a net decrease for 95 percent of Americans.
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Old 09-04-2008, 10:37 AM
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Default Re: A New Stitch in a Bad Pattern

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Originally Posted by Spencer Collins View Post
A New Stitch in a Bad Pattern



FactCheck..just keeping them honest..
Factcheck missed on this one. Sen. Obama's plan includes rolling back tax cuts. How is that any different from raising taxes?? It also includes increases in corporate taxes, an expense that gets passed on to the consumer. His tax plan will burden taxpayers more than Sen. McCain's will by a substantial margin. If you only look at the tax increases direct impact on the taxpayer, then FactCheck is correct, but as soon as you factor in the loss of the tax cuts and the impact of the increased corporate taxes, it's dead wrong.
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Old 09-04-2008, 11:30 AM
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This shows you know NOTHING of Obama's plan. Good effort though. Nice way to mindless spew non-facts. They (top economists/factcheck) have proven that it's a net decrease for 95 percent of Americans.
Well, there's a proven fact that their facts don't jive...

Guess what?...LESS than 95% of Americans AREN'T PAYING TAXES in the first place!...A helluva lot less actually...

How can you have a "net decrease" on $0?...
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Old 09-04-2008, 12:57 PM
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Default Re: A New Stitch in a Bad Pattern

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Factcheck missed on this one. Sen. Obama's plan includes rolling back tax cuts. How is that any different from raising taxes?? It also includes increases in corporate taxes, an expense that gets passed on to the consumer. His tax plan will burden taxpayers more than Sen. McCain's will by a substantial margin. If you only look at the tax increases direct impact on the taxpayer, then FactCheck is correct, but as soon as you factor in the loss of the tax cuts and the impact of the increased corporate taxes, it's dead wrong.
That's why I favor the fair tax!
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Old 09-04-2008, 03:43 PM
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Default Re: A New Stitch in a Bad Pattern

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Well, there's a proven fact that their facts don't jive...

Guess what?...LESS than 95% of Americans AREN'T PAYING TAXES in the first place!...A helluva lot less actually...

How can you have a "net decrease" on $0?...
Phraseology? We're going to argue this? My gawd you are desperate to try to prove a point. You can't cut zero. This is true. But you can cut anything above zero. It's not that flippin complicated... Those making taxable income between $1 and $250000 will get a cut in tax liability...
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Old 09-04-2008, 04:37 PM
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Phraseology? We're going to argue this? My gawd you are desperate to try to prove a point. You can't cut zero. This is true. But you can cut anything above zero. It's not that flippin complicated... Those making taxable income between $1 and $250000 will get a cut in tax liability...
Once again...That's true ONLY in the case of tax cuts already in place...Obama said he'll drop the ceiling (By the way...It's NOT $250000...It's $250000 PER COUPLE, so it's actually $125000 per PERSON...A little fact that sounds bad, so Obama doesn't say it )...

But if you include the OTHER taxes Obama plans to raise, the amount saved on ONE tax won't even it out...

Example...

Obama Capital Gains Tax Hike Would Hit N.Y. Hard

Quote:
As Senator Obama's presidential platform starts to take shape, economists and tax officials here in New York and Washington are warning that his fiscal policies could have a devastating effect on what is, in effect, New York's biggest crop — capital gains.

Mr. Obama is proposing to raise taxes on capital gains and dividends by a staggering two-thirds, moving the rate up 10 percentage points to 25%, which could curtail investment and business on Wall Street, a backbone of the city's and state's economy.

According to the Institute for Research on the Economics of Taxation, Mr. Obama's tax hike would knock off $2.5 trillion in capital formation over five years, or nearly 2% of gross domestic product.

"If we are only growing around 2% over the next five years, then we will have virtually zero growth for the period," the president of the institute, Stephen Entin, said. "This will create a permanent hit of 5% or greater to GDP."...

...Mr. Obama is not only proposing raising the capital gains and dividend tax to 25% but will allow much of the Bush tax cuts to expire, including allowing the top individual income tax rate to return to 39.6%.
Telling the public they'll get a tax cut of $5 doesn't mean much when he wants $10 in return for other things...
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Old 09-04-2008, 04:52 PM
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Once again...That's true ONLY in the case of tax cuts already in place...Obama said he'll drop the ceiling (By the way...It's NOT $250000...It's $250000 PER COUPLE, so it's actually $125000 per PERSON...A little fact that sounds bad, so Obama doesn't say it )...

But if you include the OTHER taxes Obama plans to raise, the amount saved on ONE tax won't even it out...

Example...

Obama Capital Gains Tax Hike Would Hit N.Y. Hard

Telling the public they'll get a tax cut of $5 doesn't mean much when he wants $10 in return for other things...
Obama's going to Clinton level taxation... You know... a period of time where the Democratic economic vision created the largest budget surplus in modern history and the people were doing great economically... Of course people are going to bitch, cause that's all they can do is use fear. Economically speaking he's not doing anything new... He's just using proven methods to restore our economy. Something GWB hasn't had the nuts to do.
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