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Politics Discuss Swift Boat author plagues Obama campaign at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by foundit66 You are quoting yourself... Even though the second quote clearly pretends to establish a false pretense ...

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2008, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: Swift Boat author plagues Obama campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post

You are quoting yourself...
Even though the second quote clearly pretends to establish a false pretense that it is speaking from "somebody else's" view-point.

And your response to the first quote claims: "I've started reading the thread from the latest post and I'd like to address your question before going any further."
You LIED in pretending you were addressing "my question", when the truth is that you were responding TO YOUR OWN COMMENT YOU MADE UP!

And regarding your claims to a "technique", if I went back to your OTHER posts, would I find the same "technique" there???
Could you show me ANYWHERE where you employed the same "technique"???

This duplicity is part of the problem.

If you have VALID and TRUTHFUL criticism of Obama, then I am interested.
But if all it's going to be is lie after obfuscation after falsehood after lie, then that's not real.
LYING about the candidate is not "scrutinizing" him...

The earlier post starting this thread did two things.
It examined Corsi's claims, and his character.
If he's not a credible witness, that is entirely important to the discussion. In a court of law, the opposing counsel has every right to examine the truthfulness of the "witness".


What's truly funny is that we can take a trip back into history and review something on the other side of the fence.
Remember Scott McClellan? He came out with a book criticizing the Bush administration.
If we went through that thread, would I find you guys REFUSING to attack his character?
Would I find you guys SOLELY discussing the merits of his claims???

The stench of hypocrisy and bald-faced lies (coming from your side) is pathetic.
You are so full of it.

I WANT PEOPLE TO READ MY POST!

If they read it they will see it is a quote from my text.

You attack the poster because you can't refute his comments.

You attack the author because you can't refute his comments.

The impotency of your position is made clear by your wild off-base attack.

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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 08-21-2008, 04:43 PM
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Post Re: Swift Boat author plagues Obama campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
You are so full of it.
I WANT PEOPLE TO READ MY POST!
If they read it they will see it is a quote from my text.
Quoting your own text comes AFTER the act was done.
Not before...

And I challenged you to show ANYWHERE where you have used that "technique" before.
Predictably, no response...

And like I said, you dishonestly claimed you were answering MY question.
That was YOUR claim.
But what you really did was turn around and answer YOUR OWN question, when you were claiming to answer mine?


Quote:
Originally Posted by bhkad
You attack the poster because you can't refute his comments.
You're ignoring the REAL point.
You CLAIM an "attack on the poster" when it's you or Corsi, IGNORING the fact that people are JUST SPEAKING FACTUALLY about the situation.
But when Corsi attacks the president, it is NOT FACTUAL. It's a lie. A claim without substantiation.

The "Boy Who Cried Wolf" could come on here and insist that Bush did wrong in the Plame affair, and you'd use his history to refute him.
But when it's an attack on Obama, the legitimacy of the claim is ASSUMED...

One standard for Scott McClellan's criticism of the president.
Another for any criticism of Obama, which must be presumed accurate regardless of the source.
Amazing how that works...


Quote:
Originally Posted by bhkad
You attack the author because you can't refute his comments.
As has been previously been pointed out, BOTH his comments AND his character have been refuted.
YOU CANNOT substantiate his claims, so you IGNORE that aspect and instead make inaccurate assessments of what has really gone on.
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Old 08-21-2008, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: Swift Boat author plagues Obama campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Quoting your own text comes AFTER the act was done.
Not before...

And I challenged you to show ANYWHERE where you have used that "technique" before.
Predictably, no response...

And like I said, you dishonestly claimed you were answering MY question.
That was YOUR claim.
But what you really did was turn around and answer YOUR OWN question, when you were claiming to answer mine?



You're ignoring the REAL point.
You CLAIM an "attack on the poster" when it's you or Corsi, IGNORING the fact that people are JUST SPEAKING FACTUALLY about the situation.
But when Corsi attacks the president, it is NOT FACTUAL. It's a lie. A claim without substantiation.

The "Boy Who Cried Wolf" could come on here and insist that Bush did wrong in the Plame affair, and you'd use his history to refute him.
But when it's an attack on Obama, the legitimacy of the claim is ASSUMED...

One standard for Scott McClellan's criticism of the president.
Another for any criticism of Obama, which must be presumed accurate regardless of the source.
Amazing how that works...



As has been previously been pointed out, BOTH his comments AND his character have been refuted.
YOU CANNOT substantiate his claims, so you IGNORE that aspect and instead make inaccurate assessments of what has really gone on.
If I admitted I did everything you've said, as you allege and for the reasons you have stated, then what?

Could we then get to the matter of Corsi's findings or will you continue to twist and shout?
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Old 08-21-2008, 06:54 PM
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Post Re: Swift Boat author plagues Obama campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
Could we then get to the matter of Corsi's findings or will you continue to twist and shout?
His claims have already been brought up, but you don't want to talk about what's already been said.
To label them as "findings" presumes their accuracy, when he's obviously not a trustworthy source.

Let's get a snapshot of the situation, shall we?

Corsi Wrote a Book Saying Bush's "Globalist Agenda" Is Leading to a North American Union. "The real reason behind President Bush's push for immigration reform, says author Jerome R. Corsi, is to unite the United States, Mexico and Canada by erasing borders and creating a "North American Union."
Expected response: Bush Bashing... Where's your proof!

Corsi Wrote a Book Disagreeing With Most Scientists That There is a Limit to Oil. "All his life, Jerome Corsi's been told that we're running out of oil. "I remember driving with my dad in a 1952 Plymouth and listening to him talk about the end of oil," says the 59-year-old New Jersey author. "Hasn't happened yet, and it's not going to happen." What makes him so sure? He doesn't buy the fossil fuel theory--that oil comes from dead plants and dinosaurs. He believes it comes out of the ground naturally, and that there's more coming up all the time...
Expected response: Where's your scientific basis?

This is curious in that the volume has a second author, but Jerome Corsi has dropped from the marketing because he has been revealed as the author of religiously bigoted remarks published on a Web site. Corsi not only considers Muslims to be pederasts, but he took the trouble to slam Catholic priests and refers to the pope as senile.
Expected response: Religion bashing. Where's the proof?

Attacks on Kerry or Obama?
Response: It's all part of the process and questioning the author's credibility is "bashing" him, which should not happen. His claims must be disproven, instead of proven.
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:09 PM
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Post Re: Swift Boat author plagues Obama campaign

In an exhaustive 41-page PDF document entitled Unfit for Publication -- a riff on Corsi's 2004 Unfit for Command, which targeted John Kerry -- the campaign documents every false claim they have been able to find in Corsi's current tome. No matter how small the error, including the year the Obamas married, the campaign has taken time to correct the record.

Clearly, the cumulative effect is meant as a kind of rhetorical "shock and awe" campaign against Corsi, who is described in the prelude of Unfit for Publication as "a discredited, fringe bigot" who "believes that President Bush is trying to merge the United states with Mexico and Canada," in addition to holding other conspiracy theories.

"Corsi has penned a litany of bigoted, hateful comments-- crossing the line so thoroughly that even the right-wing operatives behind Swift Boat Veterans for Truth disavowed him. This is a man who smears the Catholic Church, calls the Pope 'senile,' and regularly demeans public servants in vile sexual and racial terms," the document reads. "In short, his record of attacks is disgusting and false, and so is this book."

And then comes the table of contents.

Overall, the response memo was produced in a comprehensively media-savvy style meant to inspire more critical coverage of Corsi's book, and perhaps a few giggles at the author's expense, as well. The document's satirical cover carries a seal next to Corsi' picture that reads: "Brought To You By Bush/Cheney Attack Machine," and a quote from Joe Klein's Time.com blog post calling The Obama Nation "poisonous crap."

As for the content of the Obama camp's rebuttals, they also appear comprehensive. After a short section excerpting Corsi's bad reviews thus far, the bulk of the document is a section dedicated to the book's falsehoods. And the inaccuracies in Corsi's book appear vast indeed, from the small and quotidian to the large and substantive.
Obama Campaign Punches Back Hard Against Corsi Smears


http://obama.3cdn.net/a74586f9067028c40a_5km6vrqwa.pdf
The document includes about 30 pages of factual inaccuracies of Corsi's deception.
One of the really repugnant things about this whole thing is how people will "defend" Corsi's work WITHOUT actually defending him.
Trying to pretend the rebuttal is somehow "invalid" just because the "witnesses" character is exposed as an extremist nut-bag is ridiculous when the opposition REFUSES TO ADDRESS the question of whether the author actually is an "extremist nut-bag"...

Anybody who wants to test the "objectivity" of the back-handed Corsi "defense" squad can compare and contrast their statements made here against the statements on the "McClellan" thread.
http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/new...ite-house.html
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:43 PM
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Default Re: Swift Boat author plagues Obama campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
His claims have already been brought up, but you don't want to talk about what's already been said.
To label them as "findings" presumes their accuracy, when he's obviously not a trustworthy source.

Let's get a snapshot of the situation, shall we?
If all you can talk about are Corsi's previous books doesn't that mean you can't find any inaccuracies in this one?

And are you one of Obama's "paid bloggers?"
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Old 08-21-2008, 08:06 PM
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Post Re: Swift Boat author plagues Obama campaign

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
If all you can talk about are Corsi's previous books doesn't that mean you can't find any inaccuracies in this one?
I'll take this to mean you aren't even reading what's already been posted.
In the VERY FIRST FEW POSTS, there were listed items which Corsi just plain lied about.
The links include other items.
Since then, I've posted this which I expect to go primarily ignored...
http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/pol...html#post37497

You're obviously not interested in the truth...
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Old 08-21-2008, 08:35 PM
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Default Re: Jerome Corsi, Smear Peddler, At It Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
I don't see the comparison at all



one is using lies and dishonesty to smear a political candidate

the other one is pointing out the lies and dishonesty

I don't know how it's the same thing at all
You don't get it?

An 18 year old can understand the difference!

One is trying to become POTUS. The other wrote a book that you can take or leave if you don't like it.

If you can't see the difference then maybe Corsi should be the Democratic nominee.

Hell, I don't believe a grown man can't tell the difference!

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Old 08-21-2008, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: Jerome Corsi, Smear Peddler, At It Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
I don't get it either.
The original intent of the book is to make the intended target non-credible. An unviable candidate.

If Tristan's complaint was "I can't believe they talked bad about Kerry", then you would have a point as it would then be hypocritical to talk bad about Corsi.

But the REAL point is that Corsi is just plain not credible.

I don't get where these two are coming from either.
I guess if you want to pretend that a guy who thinks the pope is senile, stereo-types muslims as pederasts, and unilaterally condemns catholic as credible then that's their choice.

Maybe instead of complaining about how Corsi is exposed, we should ask cnredd and faithful_servant a question.

Do either of you two find Corsi to be a reliable and credible source?



And therein lies one of your problems....
NOBODY is "attacking" him because he's attacking somebody else.
We're pointing out that he is NOT a credible resource.
Quit griping about what you imagine the motivation is and actually DEAL with the issue at hand...



Oh. I see...
So pointing out that Corsi thinks the pope is senile and attacks Catholics is right on par with calling somebody a "fatty"...

I'll keep that in mind next time YOU complain somebody is being anti-Christian...

Geez.
I guess if the ACLU were to attack Obama, that would mean you guys would then defend the ACLU and ignore anything it does which might be considered "anti-Christian"...




I would presume that Corsi would be "Gary Heidnich".
Who the hell is supposedly "Charles Manson" in your analogy?
When Babe Ruth retired his home run record stood for 39 years. But few realize he also set the record for numbers of times he struck out.

With a career average of .342 he got a hit about three times out of every ten at bats.

If Corsi got 3 things right out of every ten of his findings he'd be on a better average than the legendary Ruth.

But because you haven't read the book you can't really criticize it.

So I strongly suggest that you STFU.

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Old 08-21-2008, 08:53 PM
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Post Re: Jerome Corsi, Smear Peddler, At It Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhkad View Post
You don't get it?
An 18 year old can understand the difference!
Talk about COMPLETELY ignoring the context of what TristanRobin was ACTUALLY talking about, and then running full tilt with your own strawman argument...


Quote:
Originally Posted by bhkad
When Babe Ruth retired his home run record stood for 39 years. But few realize he also set the record for numbers of times he struck out.
With a career average of .342 he got a hit about three times out of every ten at bats.
If Corsi got 3 things right out of every ten of his findings he'd be on a better average than the legendary Ruth.
"IF"????
You don't have any clue, do you...

A minute ago you were insisting people prove him wrong.
And when it FINALLY sunk in that you already were given that proof, suddenly you're switching from "You can't disprove him" to "there's a possibility he was right about something"...

Unbe-freakin-lievable!


Quote:
Originally Posted by bhkad
But because you haven't read the book you can't really criticize it.
Have you read it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by bhkad
So I strongly suggest that you STFU.
I think it has been you who has been silenced in this discussion.
Others have pointed out what the book HAS said, and where it was LYING.

You have no counter. You just went from PRESUMING it was truth, to this pathetic "maybe it's got a couple things right" approach...

And now you're doing what you've been seen to do dozens of times you got owned. You switch to arrogant posturing while ignoring the issue...

You don't even have the courage or honesty to respond to the post where Corsi's lies were pointed out!
No matter.
I can simply repost the link of the post that you couldn't handle... http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/pol...html#post37497
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