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Politics Discuss $10 a Gallon Not Enough To Get Democrats To Drill at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by Mikeyy Then what is the point of handing over more leases when they aren't drilling or exploring ...

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Old 08-02-2008, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: $10 a Gallon Not Enough To Get Democrats To Drill

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
Then what is the point of handing over more leases when they aren't drilling or exploring the ones they have? Why don't you believe that they are using fear as a wedge to make a large land grab. They already have everything lined up. First you work prices way up. Then you gain a bunch of cash and start repurchasing stock. Then you get you paid for minions like McConnel. Who BTW comes from Kentucky. Not a big oil state. How much does he receive from Exxon? So now the big push to get those leases? Get them now while you can get them cheap. Even if you won't use them. Why is it so hard to see.
It is hard to see because your logic is flawed. The reason that gas is so expensive is because our dollar is damn near worthless. As for the leases, the oil companies knew when they purchased them that if they didn't use them they would go back to the government. And a large portion of these leased lands have proved to not be sufficient.

Did you know that some of the leases were given back to the government before the lease even expired, because the land was not sufficient for drilling and producing oil?

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The entire debate is ridiculous. We are fighting over an issue like it is going to solve the problem. At best it extends the inevitable.
The debate is not ridiculous. What is ridiculous is the refusal to acknowledge that drilling is part of the solution. Do we need to get off of our dependency on foreign oil? Yes. Do we need to invest in alternative sources of energy? Yes. While drilling is not the only solution, we cannot just stop using oil. It is going to take time to find an alternative source that is efficient and to build the supporting infrastructures that we need.

The lands that the oil companies have leased aren't just sitting there idle. The process takes time, and the oil companies are exploring the areas. From what I have read, much of the land isn't worth drilling on, as the process would be inefficient.

And then there is the little problem of how much of the land the companies are actually allowed to produce on. Remember the destin dome fiasco?

Here is an interesting read concerning the democrats statements on the leased land.
FactCheck.org: Are the Democrats correct in stating that oil companies are leasing 68 million acres in the U.S. that are not being used?
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Old 08-02-2008, 03:26 PM
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Default Re: $10 a Gallon Not Enough To Get Democrats To Drill

When you said the dollar is worthless you should realize that the Chinese RMB and the HK dollars are tied to the U.S. dollar. They don't really fluctuate. And I will do this again. I don't care about drilling. My point isn't that I am against drilling. My point is I am against making billion dollar agreements out of fear. With some elusive goal of making us energy independent. Our only chance of energy independents is alternatives and some government intervention.

Look I understand that their are those who are against drilling at all. I don't defend that position. That isn't my position. Now that that is clear. What is the plan from the right? Besides maybe we can find some more oil. It is the main interest of the right. That is my problem. Where is the long term solutions from them. The left tried to get the right to agree o a time limit on new leases. So that they are not just tying them up for tax benefits. But the right refused. I mean if there is an energy crisis why is there no real progress. Because w are stuck on one thing. More drillig. Put drilling aside a moment. Why no tax breaks for alternatives for your home in the bill? It seems to me that we have a spike in prices and the only answer from the right is get out of big oils way. And if we give in to big oil what will bring the right to the table to negotiate other energy stimulas. Nothing. Once the right gets those leases to big oil they will do nothing else. Because they are against government involvement in anything but big oil. So I say forget the oil until we pass a comprehensive energy strategy. What do you think of that?
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Old 08-02-2008, 03:58 PM
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Default Re: $10 a Gallon Not Enough To Get Democrats To Drill

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
When you said the dollar is worthless you should realize that the Chinese RMB and the HK dollars are tied to the U.S. dollar. They don't really fluctuate. And I will do this again. I don't care about drilling. My point isn't that I am against drilling. My point is I am against making billion dollar agreements out of fear. With some elusive goal of making us energy independent. Our only chance of energy independents is alternatives and some government intervention.

Look I understand that their are those who are against drilling at all. I don't defend that position. That isn't my position. Now that that is clear. What is the plan from the right? Besides maybe we can find some more oil. It is the main interest of the right. That is my problem. Where is the long term solutions from them. The left tried to get the right to agree o a time limit on new leases. So that they are not just tying them up for tax benefits. But the right refused. I mean if there is an energy crisis why is there no real progress. Because w are stuck on one thing. More drillig. Put drilling aside a moment. Why no tax breaks for alternatives for your home in the bill? It seems to me that we have a spike in prices and the only answer from the right is get out of big oils way. And if we give in to big oil what will bring the right to the table to negotiate other energy stimulas. Nothing. Once the right gets those leases to big oil they will do nothing else. Because they are against government involvement in anything but big oil. So I say forget the oil until we pass a comprehensive energy strategy. What do you think of that?
There has been a bipartisan energy bill drafted, but I haven't read much on it yet. The problem doesn't lie only with the right. Neither side wants to acknowledge anything that comes from the other. I am hoping that the new plan will at least open the door for compromise. We cannot afford to have continued partisan bickering on this matter.

There are some tax credits. While most expired for this past year, I there is a new bill, that includes an extension on energy efficient home improvements . Hopefully it will get signed into law.
H.R. 5351: Renewable Energy and Energy Conservation Tax Act of 2008 (GovTrack.us)

I have to respectfully disagree with you about the right doing nothing if the oil companies get the leases. I haven't heard of anyone on the right denying that we do need to look for other sources of energy.
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Old 08-02-2008, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: $10 a Gallon Not Enough To Get Democrats To Drill

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Originally Posted by babylon5 View Post
There has been a bipartisan energy bill drafted, but I haven't read much on it yet. The problem doesn't lie only with the right. Neither side wants to acknowledge anything that comes from the other. I am hoping that the new plan will at least open the door for compromise. We cannot afford to have continued partisan bickering on this matter.

There are some tax credits. While most expired for this past year, I there is a new bill, that includes an extension on energy efficient home improvements . Hopefully it will get signed into law.
H.R. 5351: Renewable Energy and Energy Conservation Tax Act of 2008 (GovTrack.us)

I have to respectfully disagree with you about the right doing nothing if the oil companies get the leases. I haven't heard of anyone on the right denying that we do need to look for other sources of energy.
They are offering big tax breaks for home builders to build more energy efficient new homes. But it costs about $30,000 to get your home mostly off the grid. I have said this before. The government will give me a tax break to drive a Hummer if I am self employed. To the tune of $100,000. Don't you think that giving homeowners a tax break of thirty grand to do these upgrades would stimulate the economy? And have an immediate psychological effect on big oil prices? And get us a cleaner environment? And reduce the money being burned up Year after year? And many more pluses. The right tries to say that if the Dems had allowed drilling earlier we might not be in this situation. I would say that if we had supported these alternative earlier we might not even care about drilling by now. So today we think we have a crisis. So when is a better time to tackle all of the options? I say we do it now. Why wait? Why just do the oil lease agreement separate? When will we have this opportunity to do it right again?

I will bet you a thousand dollars that my ideas will never see the daylight. Because this is and has always been about oil.

This is exactly like Hillary Clintons Health care repair attempt in the 90's. The insurance companies and others organized a hit job in order to protect their interests. Now lets assume you didn't want hillarycare. Thats fine. But here is the point. We know the system is screwed up. To costly etc. I can remember republicans attacking her plans even before she had produced any. What gets me is that they said at the time that they had a better plan. And that we just needed to kill anything that Hillary created in her group. Well they killed Hillarys plan. And created a new word "Hillarycare" Which is now a slogan of the right that they use to smack down any plan that interferes with big business. Or that pools us together in any form. And it looks as though thats all the right wanted from their representatives. A smack down. They have done nothing to address health care reform. Except proposals produced by the Pharmaceutical and insurance companies.

I think people have replaced accomplishments in leadership with a pay per view ultimate fighting match. I don't care if you don't like the left. I care that you don't expect more from your representatives. You ought to watch the emotions of those trying to get drilling passed. Some of them look as though they are about to cry if we don't give away the oil. Like Dominici. Wouldn't it be great if they were as emotional about other options?
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Old 08-02-2008, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: $10 a Gallon Not Enough To Get Democrats To Drill

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
They are offering big tax breaks for home builders to build more energy efficient new homes. But it costs about $30,000 to get your home mostly off the grid. I have said this before. The government will give me a tax break to drive a Hummer if I am self employed. To the tune of $100,000. Don't you think that giving homeowners a tax break of thirty grand to do these upgrades would stimulate the economy? And have an immediate psychological effect on big oil prices? And get us a cleaner environment? And reduce the money being burned up Year after year? And many more pluses. The right tries to say that if the Dems had allowed drilling earlier we might not be in this situation. I would say that if we had supported these alternative earlier we might not even care about drilling by now. So today we think we have a crisis. So when is a better time to tackle all of the options? I say we do it now. Why wait? Why just do the oil lease agreement separate? When will we have this opportunity to do it right again?
I don't disagree with you about incentives and tax breaks. I was just stating that we did have some in the past, and that I was hoping that the new ones passed. I also agree that something needs to be done. I just don't agree with attacking the oil companies. They are in the oil business, not the alternative energy business. If they do invest into alternative energy sources, then great.

10 years ago it was stated that we didn't need to drill because it would take too long. Now, here we are still debating over drilling. Yes, we need to research and develop new forms of energy. But in the meantime, we should also drill.

Quote:
I will bet you a thousand dollars that my ideas will never see the daylight. Because this is and has always been about oil.
Your ideas will never see daylight because much of what you say...concerning incentives, tax breaks etc...actually makes sense, and our government is the definition of inefficient. CONgress is corrupt, and all of Washington has become a special interest group dedicated only to themselves, not the citizens of this country. The government is meant to serve the people. The people aren't meant to serve the government. Seems that Washington has forgotten that.

Quote:
This is exactly like Hillary Clintons Health care repair attempt in the 90's. The insurance companies and others organized a hit job in order to protect their interests. Now lets assume you didn't want hillarycare. Thats fine. But here is the point. We know the system is screwed up. To costly etc. I can remember republicans attacking her plans even before she had produced any. What gets me is that they said at the time that they had a better plan. And that we just needed to kill anything that Hillary created in her group. Well they killed Hillarys plan. And created a new word "Hillarycare" Which is now a slogan of the right that they use to smack down any plan that interferes with big business. Or that pools us together in any form. And it looks as though thats all the right wanted from their representatives. A smack down. They have done nothing to address health care reform. Except proposals produced by the Pharmaceutical and insurance companies.
Our health care system is an issue for another thread. The only thing I will say concerning that is that I do think it needs to be reformed.

Quote:
I think people have replaced accomplishments in leadership with a pay per view ultimate fighting match. I don't care if you don't like the left. I care that you don't expect more from your representatives. You ought to watch the emotions of those trying to get drilling passed. Some of them look as though they are about to cry if we don't give away the oil. Like Dominici. Wouldn't it be great if they were as emotional about other options?
I don't favor drilling because the right favors it. I support it because it makes sense. I already stated I don't think drilling is the only answer, but part of the solution.

And just an FYI, there aren't many in Washington, including those on the right and the left, that I have much respect for these days.
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Old 08-02-2008, 10:39 PM
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Default Re: $10 a Gallon Not Enough To Get Democrats To Drill

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Originally Posted by babylon5 View Post
I don't disagree with you about incentives and tax breaks. I was just stating that we did have some in the past, and that I was hoping that the new ones passed. I also agree that something needs to be done. I just don't agree with attacking the oil companies. They are in the oil business, not the alternative energy business. If they do invest into alternative energy sources, then great.

10 years ago it was stated that we didn't need to drill because it would take too long. Now, here we are still debating over drilling. Yes, we need to research and develop new forms of energy. But in the meantime, we should also drill.



Your ideas will never see daylight because much of what you say...concerning incentives, tax breaks etc...actually makes sense, and our government is the definition of inefficient. CONgress is corrupt, and all of Washington has become a special interest group dedicated only to themselves, not the citizens of this country. The government is meant to serve the people. The people aren't meant to serve the government. Seems that Washington has forgotten that.



Our health care system is an issue for another thread. The only thing I will say concerning that is that I do think it needs to be reformed.



I don't favor drilling because the right favors it. I support it because it makes sense. I already stated I don't think drilling is the only answer, but part of the solution.

And just an FYI, there aren't many in Washington, including those on the right and the left, that I have much respect for these days.
Can't argue with anything there.
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