What is controversial about that statement??

It is true.

And it's time everyone recognized it.

The fact that everyone doesn't recognize it gives Obama wiggle room in which to mount his campaign.

He uses the war in Iraq as a platform at times and as leverage at times.

If everyone understood the basic premise of Islam there would be no question about why it is important to assure a stable Iraq after we are gone and with that Obama would have no position to stand on.

What's controversial about that statement if it is true?

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But, when all is said and done, Senator McCain has not spent decades aiding and abetting people who hate America. http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell060508.php3

Look at the difference between the initial statement, and the McCain rephrase...

"the Muslims have said either we kneel, or they're going to kill us."
“The threat we face is from radical Islamic extremism," he said.

One doesn't specify which muslims, leaving vague interpretations which could include all or most.
The second specifies...

It would be like talking about "The Christians..." in referring to the Phelps crowd.

President Bush has typically been good in specifying the latter.
Speaking the former ("The muslims...") ignores those Muslims out there who don't share that sentiment, and work to change it in the Muslim community.
It would be more intelligent to empower these NON-extremist Muslims through education, rather than alienate them...


Gee. I'm sorry.
Is that something only the Republicans are supposed to be able to do?




You know, at face value the whole idea of what you're talking is laughable and ABSURD.
Saddam, for all his faults and %@#$-ed up actions, DEPLORED religious tyranny. While he was his own brand of zealot, he WAS against religious government.

And what do we replace him with?
A DEMOCRACY system, in a country FILLED with Muslims...

Yeah. So ALL those Muslims with ideals of religious zealotry? They NOW have a vote they did NOT have before...
If we WERE supposedly out in Iraq to address "The Muslims", our solution (democracy) is unforgivably idiotic.
Cause what we ACTUALLY did was enable the potential for an electoral theocracy which wasn't present before...

No, he was against any kind of religion that he didn't agree with and that didn't agree with him.
http://www.c-span.org/resources/pdf/hrdossier.pdf - page 9

SH was supported by and supported those who believed as he did. There was no need for the Sunni religious leaders to involve themselves in gov't since SH goals and thier own coincided. He oppresssion of the Shias was a purely religious effort, approved of by Sunni mullahs. While they weren't directly involved, thier influence in his decisions is very clear. They were heretics and deserved to die for their heresy.

If Muslims are willing to kill each other over this:
What's the Difference Between Shia and Sunni Muslims?
What makes you think that they would be willing to ignore even greater differences between them and YOU??

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Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

God is a conservative -

Ecclesiastes 10:2--"A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but a fool's heart to the left."

I think the CNN people don't understand it the way you and I do. We are both willing to abide a certain charade in order to achieve an environment where progress can be achieved on our similar mutual goals of peace. But there is also progress being made on those goals which go right back to the original statement. ALL Muslims are ordered to help achieve the goal of global submission yet many Muslims do not help as much as they might.

But some do.

And to recognize that ALL are called, most answer, but only a few answer loudly makes Day's statement true.

And the only controversy is that CAIR wishes to cloud the truth from the infidels until they no longer need to pretend to have any interest in Western Pluralism and Western values.

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But, when all is said and done, Senator McCain has not spent decades aiding and abetting people who hate America. http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell060508.php3

You haven't contradicted me at all.
You have given a major reason why Saddam was against religious tyranny, but you haven't contradicted me.

Moreover, looking at your follow-on comments, can you kindly explain to me what will prevent the Shia Muslim population from exerting "Muslim" control via democracy?

We've traded one problem for another, just like we have done REPEATEDLY when we have involved ourselves in the Middle East.


You are trying to change the subject.
I get that. It's not easy to address my point...


So let's move on to what you're talking about...
Where have I said anything that leads you to believe that I "think" what you allege in the first place????

I view a lot of the Middle East as a big cat litter box. We repeatedly insist on jumping in, and then we wind up with cat turds. Yay us!


Furthermore, your actual question SUPPORTS my general point in the first place...
What SHOULD be the question here, based on the ORIGINAL ARTICLE, is WHAT has the U.S. put into place that will help mitigate the problem you speak of?
(After all, that's what McCain's surrogate was talking about.)

I see the balance of power as having IMPROVED for "Muslims" by our action.
If "Muslims" truly are "the" problem, as bhkad has alleged, we have IMPROVED the religion's capability to utilize the government as a weapon...

Am I wrong?
Or is this an aspect of the blessed "democracy" which you just don't want to address?

Not all Muslims believe your interpretation of their goal.
Some have more peaceful interpretations.

cnredd posted a thread recently showing some pretty large percentages supporting your interpretation.
But there were also large percentages which didn't agree with that interpretation.


To recognize that a large segment of Islam DOES NOT believe as you describe is more accurate.

We could look at the Bible and recognize an interpretation of blatant misogyny espoused by the Christian God.
Bible passages (New Testament) forbidding women teachers, and forbidding women from having positions of authority over men (to name a few).

But the religion has grown away from those interpretations.

The fact that Islam also has growth away from your interpretation should not be ignored. It should be encouraged.
The distinction should be recognized.
Condemning the whole religion would be counter-productive.


There is an episode of the Simpsons where Bart is supposed to apologize to the Australians for some prank he pulled.

Bart pretends to go to apologize, then drops his shorts and moons them instead.

As far as I'm concerned, McCain could do likewise and I would have no problem with it.

CAIR sacrificed a lot of potential credibility with their "flying imams" support.
But by the same token, it should NOT be ignored that there are Muslims who ACTIVELY OPPOSE the stunt CAIR tried to pull / is trying to pull.

Press Release: Not All Muslims Support CAIR Plan to Sue U.S. Airways on Behalf of Six Imams - American Islamic Forum for Democracy

To lump the WHOLE religion together with wide-spread condemnation, while ignoring (if not alienating) the positive actions of these Muslims within their religion, is not sensible.

The power of the word "some"...

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"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd

I see that Bud Day's statement is misleading. But it is misleading in a helpful way if you love America and want to safeguard it.

I had to go through the process from thinking Islam was the religion of peace and that it was just like being a Methodist, like Rosie said on the View, before I came to see that wasn't true.

Then, I had to believe that ALL Muslims were just evil liars trying to lull us into a false sense of security so they might one day take advantage of us, and kill us all, until I found that idea to be off the mark.

Now, I know there are all sorts of Muslims, with all sorts of beliefs. And I am more than willing and happy to co-exist with them in my world, in my country, in my city and neighborhood but only after having gone through the process of education.

I know there are sweet Muslim men and women, some who have fought and died for our Constitution and some who care nothing about politics and who would not even vote for Sharia law. But they are not the majority of Muslims just as the 'fire-breathing Muslim terrorist' does not represent the whole truth.

The fact is that because of how the Koran is written and how it can be taught and how it can be interpreted, there will ALWAYS be a threat from virtually any group of Muslims that a certain % will be trying to follow the Jihadist mandate to conquer and to force submission. And there will always be a greater percentage of Muslim bigots (especially those who are anti-Jewish) because Islam does not believe in the universal equality of man.

And for Bud Day's comment to be called controversial one has to want to keep American infidels ignorant.

You must not want us to get frightened by the knowledge of what the Koran mandates and the fact that certain Muslims are active warriors but are undetectable.

And you certainly don't want Americans to be knowledgeable enough to know your tricks so that we might recognize any possible attempts to gain ground in this country before they get too far.

Remember, if you all had been up front and honest about this rather than being deceptive, we could have gotten everyone on the right track and there wouldn't need to be these stages of misunderstanding. But because you said nothing or mislead us in that taquiyyah and kitman tradition of yours, then we had to learn it ourselves and in that process comes the necessary stage where infidels get a really overblown notion of the size and nature of the threat.

And they get really alarmed. And IF they grow in knowledge to move past that stage then everyone can settle down.

But that's just the way it goes. Only after the infidel has hit the ceiling can he then settle down and gain a realistic and rational view of Muslims.

You had your chance and this is what you chose.

So, if you continue to deny us the ability to see the truth you only make yourselves look like you are being deceptive and that will give us more reason to be suspicious.

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But, when all is said and done, Senator McCain has not spent decades aiding and abetting people who hate America. http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell060508.php3

Fundamentalists have radical ideas. In every religion. Its a question of if followers in general are fundamentalists. There is a fundamentalist "Reawakening" in Islam. I think that is because moderates left a void. I think in some cases its economic. But there is a real core of radical fundamentalist Islam that has been being taught and promoted. And they have a singular goal even if they are in small poorly led groups. To destroy the west. Now before you say Duh! I am curious as to what you would propose we do about it? Outlaw Muslims? I'm serious. We keep having the posts as to the seriousness of the Islamic threat. If you really believe it is pervasive in the religion at the core. What is our choice. Aren't you saying in essence. Islam is the enemy?

I believe we are doing what we can do to help bring about a different interpretation of the Koran by closing the hate filled madrassas and addressing the actual violent aggression with military force.

But, ultimately, the key is to educate non-Muslims as to the true nature of Islam until we all understand the goals and aims and the nature of Islamic expansion and until we are as knowledgeable of the non-violent tricks and ploys and tactics as possible so that we might prevent Islamist attempts to gain mastery over the free world.

If you have a pretty 17 year old daughter and you raised her right, you do not want her to be vulnerable to the ploys and charms of the young men who would love to defile her. So, do you murder all the young men? No. You educate her as to what they want and what they will say and how they will act in order to achieve their goal.

If she is prepared for what they will try she will be in a better position to ward off their advances.

Education and a strong sense of values is the best prophylactic.

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But, when all is said and done, Senator McCain has not spent decades aiding and abetting people who hate America. http://jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell060508.php3