CONTROVERSIAL?? "...kneel, or they're going to kill us." - Page 2

foundit66 · #11 (**permalink**) 07-29-2008, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

You must not want us to get frightened by the knowledge of what the Koran mandates and the fact that certain Muslims are active warriors but are undetectable.
And you certainly don't want Americans to be knowledgeable enough to know your tricks so that we might recognize any possible attempts to gain ground in this country before they get too far.

Cut the crap bhkad.
I have no problem exposing the "certain Muslims" that ARE "active warriors".
I want Americans to be knowledgeable of ACTUAL issues, like the "flying imams" crap.

What I do NOT want is the ENTIRE RELIGION to be condemned based on the actions of the zealots.
Can you comprehend the difference?
Or can I just expect more deceitful bullsh!t from you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

I believe we are doing what we can do to help bring about a different interpretation of the Koran by closing the hate filled madrassas and addressing the actual violent aggression with military force.

Texas recently had a ruling where a 17-year old girl was "assaulted" during an "exorcism".
The court ruled that the church was not liable.
If it had been under any other terms other than "religion", the "assault" would have been irrefutable.

But you want to "close" the madrassas because they are "hate filled"?
Good luck with the first amendment and that one...

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

But, ultimately, the key is to educate non-Muslims as to the true nature of Islam until we all understand the goals and aims and the nature of Islamic expansion and until we are as knowledgeable of the non-violent tricks and ploys and tactics as possible so that we might prevent Islamist attempts to gain mastery over the free world.

And in doing so, undermine the efforts of sincere Muslims trying to change the religion from within...

Like I pointed out, Christianity has definitive bible passages which are misogynistic.
But MODERN APPLIED Christianity is not misogynistic. Most of it fully accepts female equality.
How many other flaws of the bible could we dig up?

Stereo-typing is NOT the key.
Address the problem WHERE it exists.
Condemning people who are not guilty of what you stereo-type does not help your goal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

If you have a pretty 17 year old daughter and you raised her right, you do not want her to be vulnerable to the ploys and charms of the young men who would love to defile her. So, do you murder all the young men? No. You educate her as to what they want and what they will say and how they will act in order to achieve their goal.

Funny analogy you got going on there.
Cause in YOUR "Muslim" situation, you condemn the ENTIRE religion.
Likewise, if you were to really deal with a daughter in the same way, you'd paint ALL men as inherently interested in defiling her. You'd condemn the GENDER as a whole.
Your approach IGNORES the men who are decent, cause you would (to follow the analogy) just talk about the "true nature" of men...

Recognize the ploys WHEN the ploys are present, but do NOT condemn the entire group based on the actions of SOME.

YOU condemn the ENTIRE RELIGION of Islam.
But with your daughter, it's JUST the "ploys" that you want to educate on.
I am talking about the SAME approach of focusing on the PLOYS instead of these grotesquely prejudiced statements condemning the entire religion.

Mikeyy · #12 (**permalink**) 07-29-2008, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

I believe we are doing what we can do to help bring about a different interpretation of the Koran by closing the hate filled madrassas and addressing the actual violent aggression with military force.

But, ultimately, the key is to educate non-Muslims as to the true nature of Islam until we all understand the goals and aims and the nature of Islamic expansion and until we are as knowledgeable of the non-violent tricks and ploys and tactics as possible so that we might prevent Islamist attempts to gain mastery over the free world.

If you have a pretty 17 year old daughter and you raised her right, you do not want her to be vulnerable to the ploys and charms of the young men who would love to defile her. So, do you murder all the young men? No. You educate her as to what they want and what they will say and how they will act in order to achieve their goal.

If she is prepared for what they will try she will be in a better position to ward off their advances.

Education and a strong sense of values is the best prophylactic.

I think most intelligent people understand the threat. If you are expecting to educate the masses save your breath. There is still a large number in this country who believe Saddam was behind 9-11. What do you think your chances are of wising them up? Most of them don't understand the teachings of Jesus Christ. And you think we can teach them how to deal with another religion.

saltwn · #13 (**permalink**) 07-29-2008, 11:40 PM

Silly school girls. "Well Tomika said he said he was going blah blah blah..."
Rubbish. Everyone with half a brain knows he meant the Muslim terrorists.
Bunch a poo about nothing.

cnredd · #14 (**permalink**) 07-30-2008, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn

Silly school girls. "Well Tomika said he said he was going blah blah blah..."
Rubbish. Everyone with half a brain knows he meant the Muslim terrorists.
Bunch a poo about nothing.

I WANT to agree with you, and I'm "pretty" sure that's what he meant...

But, unfortunately, there ARE clueless morons that still believe it's every person who says they are a Muslim...Works the same way for people who think all Jews are cheap, all Irish are drunks, and all Japanese can't drive...

Stereotypes have an ELEMENT of truth, but that doesn't mean they are all-encompassing...And by not pointing out specifically that there are SOME Muslims or there is a SEGMENT of Islam that demand submission, he could very well be the type that falsely believes it's the whole crew...

faithful_servant · #15 (**permalink**) 07-30-2008, 10:36 AM

The problem I have with the general Islamic population is the "consent by silence" issue. When I start seeing mass protests demanding an end to radical Islam's terrorist tactics, then I'll trust Muslims more. But as long as I see thousands of Muslims storming the streets in protests in order to force us to conform to their demands, I will always have a measure of distrust for the general Muslim population.

BTW -I will deal with individual Muslims the same way I deal with anyone else - they have a measure of trust and it will go up or down depending on the individual.

foundit66 · #16 (**permalink**) 07-30-2008, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faithful_servant

The problem I have with the general Islamic population is the "consent by silence" issue. When I start seeing mass protests demanding an end to radical Islam's terrorist tactics, then I'll trust Muslims more.

Do you look?
I could make the same argument about Christians and abortion clinic bombings.
But the truth is that they typically DO object, and the perceived "silence" is only because they aren't given a national microphone when they make the objection.

After 9/11, I watched TV and there were a LOT of interviewed Islamic leaders who expressly condemned the actions.
And then, over the next few years I talked to dozens of people who made a similar complaint about Muslim "silence" on the issue.

I linked to a group which explicitly condemns terrorist actions, and also the "flying imams" crap as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by faithful_servant

But as long as I see thousands of Muslims storming the streets in protests in order to force us to conform to their demands, I will always have a measure of distrust for the general Muslim population.

Where the heck do you see that?
In the U.S.?

Quote:

Originally Posted by faithful_servant

BTW -I will deal with individual Muslims the same way I deal with anyone else - they have a measure of trust and it will go up or down depending on the individual.

Pretty wise!

faithful_servant · #17 (**permalink**) 07-30-2008, 03:03 PM

[quote=foundit66;35944]Do you look?[quote]
Yes. The only place where any large muslim groups have assembled and demanded peace has been Algeria. Outside of that, it's been silence.

Quote:

I could make the same argument about Christians and abortion clinic bombings.

No you can't because I'm clearly comparing the demostrations in favor of violence to those opposing it. When I start hearing of mass demonstrations by Christians supporting the bombing of abortion clinics, I'll be on the front lines opposing them, as will millions of other Christians. Additionally, the bombing of abortion cinincs has been repudiated virtually across the board by ever Christian leader that had made a statement about this topic (and that's a very substantial %).

Quote:

But the truth is that they typically DO object, and the perceived "silence" is only because they aren't given a national microphone when they make the objection.

After 9/11, I watched TV and there were a LOT of interviewed Islamic leaders who expressly condemned the actions.
And then, over the next few years I talked to dozens of people who made a similar complaint about Muslim "silence" on the issue.

I linked to a group which explicitly condemns terrorist actions, and also the "flying imams" crap as well.

You can always find isolated voices, what I'm looking for is a unified one. When I see the protests supporting violence countered by protests demanding peace and reconciliation, then I'll be convinced.

Quote:

Where the heck do you see that?
In the U.S.?

Nope, but I see it across the world in Europe, the ME and SE Asia. Massive, violent protests trying to make the world conform to what they want by way of intimidation.

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