I have wasted so much time pointing out what FEMA did wrong that it would be foolish of me to repeat myself at this stage.
Brown's incompetence has been documented by so many people that at this stage, I am actually getting a kick out of your repetitive denial of the obvious.


We've already had that discussion, and the answer was yes I do understand the context of that quote.
And I don't care where I am at, but when the emperor walks in wearing no clothes, I will point out that he's naked and not try to proclaim that he's doing a "heck of a job"...


"mass public panic"???
Are you on drugs???

He was standing in front of a group of kids as a photo op. A PHOTO OP.
And the U.S. was under attack by terrorists...

You stand up. Kindly say "Excuse me but I need to take this" and LEAVE to go do your business.
WHERE is the "public panic" in that?


Once again, you start a sentence with "You really think...", and what follows is something I:
a) obviously don't think,
b) never hinted at thinking, and
c) no intelligent person could derive the claim from what I actually said.

No. What I "really think" is that when the President of the U.S. is told his country is under attack, he drop everything and DEAL with it in the off chance that he MIGHT be able to help.
The point is that the President DID NOT KNOW if his response could have helped at that stage...
... AND HE DID NOT BOTHER TO FIND OUT!!!

That's the freakin' scary part...


Honestly, at this stage, anybody who tries to deny it is an issue is saying more about themselves than the people who do.
That's one thing that kills me about people like you. You have NO idea how what you are saying is perceived by the general public.
People point to a massive problem, and you don't get it.
One of the many reasons Republicans are doing incredibly crappy these days...

the word is insinuate. a dictionary is a helpful tool.
How is my opinion "bigoted"?

Your retort, to my posting was If the majority of the Katrina victims had been "white", I doubt, seriously, that you would say something so callous. It just goes right along with the mindset that, somehow, persons of color are "less than", and undeserving of any assistance in light of a disaster, unprecedented, in American history, the inundation of an entire major U.S. city.
No, because you are already predisposed to a negative opinion of persons of color, how then could you be expected to harbor any sympathy for them?
You incriminated yourself...by yourself. Don't be pointing fingers at me.

If this is your idea of debate....you have another think coming.
You totally miss the point(s).
7 minutes might not have mattered at all....but appearances are everything.
However......zoom! over your head.

Katrina cost in MS were $125 billion and it wasn't as strong a storm. Care to guess why the cost were higher? There is more developement along the coast now.

The question is what was your point.


Why? It has noting to do with rescuing people and getting vitial services up and running which is a state and local responsiblity.

No Camille was worse where it hit than Katrina, it was a stronger storm, just smaller. The fact is NOLA would have been fine if the levies hadn't given way the next day.

Ignoring it is folly.



Yes not first responder, they don't go in and resuce people then coordinate with the state and local officials who are in charge.

From their webpage
FEMA History

FEMA has more than 2,600 full time employees. They work at FEMA headquarters in Washington D.C., at regional and area offices across the country, the Mount Weather Emergency Operations Center, and the National Emergency Training Center in Emmitsburg, Maryland. FEMA also has nearly 4,000 standby disaster assistance employees who are available for deployment after disasters. Often FEMA works in partnership with other organizations that are part of the nation's emergency management system. These partners include state and local emergency management agencies, 27 federal agencies and the American Red Cross.

They operatein partership with and provide assistance to state and local officials, they are NOT the lead entity in such efforts.

Yes as did state and local officials until the efforts could be coordinated and it was the state and local officials who were delying those efforts. They don't let people just rush into these areas you know.
Here was the official statement

"WASHINGTON D.C. -- Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary of Homeland Security for Emergency Preparedness and Response and head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), today urged all fire and emergency services departments not to respond to counties and states affected by Hurricane Katrina without being requested and lawfully dispatched by state and local authorities under mutual aid agreements and the Emergency Management Assistance Compact.

“The response to Hurricane Katrina must be well coordinated between federal, state and local officials to most effectively protect life and property,” Brown said. “We appreciate the willingness and generosity of our Nation’s first responders to deploy during disasters. But such efforts must be coordinated so that fire-rescue efforts are the most effective possible.”

The U.S. Fire Administration, part of FEMA, asks that fire and emergency services organizations remain in contact with their local and state emergency management agency officials for updates on requirements in the affected areas.

“It is critical that fire and emergency departments across the country remain in their jurisdictions until such time as the affected states request assistance,” said U.S. Fire Administrator R. David Paulison. “State and local mutual aid agreements are in place as is the Emergency Management Assistance Compact and those mechanisms will be used to request and task resources needed in the affected areas.”

Paulison said the National Incident Management System is being used during the response to Hurricane Katrina and that self-dispatching volunteer assistance could significantly complicate the response and recovery effort.

FEMA prepares the nation for all hazards and manages federal response and recovery efforts following any national incident. FEMA also initiates mitigation activities, trains first responders, works with state and local emergency managers, and manages the National Flood Insurance Program and the U.S. Fire Administration. FEMA became part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security on March 1, 2003. "

It's when the state and local officials make the request after they have evaluated the situation and know what they need and where they need it, FEMA plays the role of middle man.


Tell me reading all the news accounts, who is heading up the rescue and recovey in all the flooded areas we are seeing now, state and local or has the federal government taken over?

dodge note

And the apperance of a paniced President rushing out of the room could have mattered and mattered negatively.

take you bigotry elsewhere

None of this is relevant to anything of importance.
So what?
What is your point?

Does ANY of this mean that Katrina wasn't one of the worst storms that we've seen in quite a while, worse as judged by COST and by LIVES LOST.
The two storms you mentioned don't even compare.


And I've quoted FEMA's SELF-ADMITTED responsibilities, which you continually ignore.
FEMA is a part of the effort as well.


Camille was worse in WHAT WAY?

And the comment about the levees? Purely pointless.
The storm WAS strong enough to cause the levees to break, so talking about what would have happened if the storm wasn't strong enough to do WHAT IT DID DO when you are trying to compare the problems of the storm is ridiculous.


And as I have stated, REPEATEDLY, they KEPT RESCUERS OUT.
And until you can post any evidence that more rescuers would have been problematic, your repeated excuse is meaningless...


[quuote=Stinger]From their webpage
FEMA History[/quote]
Dude. NONE of what you posted contradicts what I am saying.
You are pulling the classic shell game. I am talking about "FEMA's job is X", and you respond by showing quotes where FEMA states their job is ALSO Y and Z.

From FEMA's web-page.

On March 1, 2003, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) became part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS). The primary mission of the Federal Emergency Management Agency is to reduce the loss of life and property and protect the Nation from all hazards, including natural disasters, acts of terrorism, and other man-made disasters, by leading and supporting the Nation in a risk-based, comprehensive emergency management system of preparedness, protection, response, recovery, and mitigation.

Robert T. Stafford Disaster Relief and Emergency Assistance Act, PL 100-707, signed into law November 23, 1988; amended the Disaster Relief Act of 1974, PL 93-288. This Act constitutes the statutory authority for most Federal disaster response activities especially as they pertain to FEMA and FEMA programs.

FEMA: About FEMA

That was ABOVE what you quoted, but you IGNORED that section and posted something completely meaningless.
You couldn't handle the fact that they REPEATEDLY stated they were a RESPONSE organization, could you?

Advising on building codes and flood plain management...teaching people how to get through a disaster...helping equip local and state emergency preparedness...coordinating the federal response to a disaster...making disaster assistance available to states, communities, businesses and individuals...training emergency managers...supporting the nation's fire service...administering the national flood and crime insurance programs...the range of FEMA's activities is broad indeed and spans the life cycle of disasters.

FEMA: What We Do

Part of FEMA's job IS a RESPONSE organization.


It's the statement FROM BROWN.
The guy who almost EVERYBODY BUT YOU knows screwed up in a majorly royal way.

You're quoting Brown's EXCUSES that were REJECTED REPEATEDLY by independent organizations that analyzed the disaster response.
In reading this, I see NONE of Brown explaining what he ACTUALLY did right.


King of strawman you are...
NOWHERE have I EVER argued that FEMA failed because they did not "take over".
I have REPEATEDLY been very explicit as to WHAT FEMA failed to do.
You have REPEATEDLY FAILED to address what FEMA ACTUALLY failed to do.

So are you saying that the only way Bush could have dealt with that situation was to "panic"?
I'm amazed by what people like you will admit back-handedly, without even realizing it...

I've already explained how Bush could have circumvented the problem you describe. Instead, you insist he would have created it.
I honestly didn't think Bush was as incompetent as you insist he is...

FEMA gives away $85 million of supplies for Katrina victims.


Don't these people watch TV?

It sounds to me that the fault lay squarely on the shoulders of the state politicians who seem to be unaware of the needs of their constituents. There is incompetence on all sides, but you can't accuse FEMA of being biased, as they screw everyone over, regardless of color,

Insurance not required, FEMA told flooded town - CNN.com