Political Wrinkles  

Go Back   Political Wrinkles > General Forum > Opinions & Editorials
Register FAQDonate PW Store PW Trivia Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Opinions & Editorials Discuss Does the administration not want Ukraine to prevail? at the General Forum; I heard, just day before yesterday--rather shockingly--an opinion from General Jack Keane (now retired): specifically, that this administration does not ...

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2022, 02:18 PM
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tennessee
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,957
Thanks: 15,996
Thanked 5,586 Times in 3,572 Posts
Default Does the administration not want Ukraine to prevail?

I heard, just day before yesterday--rather shockingly--an opinion from General Jack Keane (now retired): specifically, that this administration does not want Ukraine to win its war with Russia (which is, presumably, why it will not supply it with sophisticated military equipment).

And why would it not want Ukraine to prevail?

Well, the theory is that if Vladimir Putin is defeated--perhaps decisively--he will lash out in some unpredictable ways.

Comments?
__________________
"In his second inaugural address, [Franklin D.] Roosevelt sought 'unimagined power' to enforce the 'proper subordination' of private power to public power. He got it…"—George Will, July 8, 2007
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2022, 12:21 AM
cnredd's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Gender: Male
Posts: 57,346
Thanks: 2,461
Thanked 39,538 Times in 21,967 Posts
Default Re: Does the administration not want Ukraine to prevail?

Personally, I think Putin would lose his power if the war goes south for him...Ukraine defeating Russia would be an asset...

I think general Keane is wrong...This administration would rather have Ukraine win; they just don't want to get their hands dirty...

Remember "Speak softly, but carry a big stick."?...Biden is the EXACT OPPOSITE...
__________________
"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to cnredd For This Useful Post:
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2022, 09:18 AM
Conservative Sage
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 20,547
Thanks: 14,335
Thanked 15,674 Times in 8,956 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to AZRWinger
Default Re: Does the administration not want Ukraine to prevail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Personally, I think Putin would lose his power if the war goes south for him...Ukraine defeating Russia would be an asset...

I think general Keane is wrong...This administration would rather have Ukraine win; they just don't want to get their hands dirty...

Remember "Speak softly, but carry a big stick."?...Biden is the EXACT OPPOSITE...
What happens to the Russian nukes if Putin falls? Keep in mind there may be an extended period where control of their arsenal is fractured giving Generals and war lords a huge opportunity to sell off weapons for billions.

A much preferable outcome would be a humiliated Putin focused on retaining power instead of conquest. Remember, Reagan put huge pressure on the Soviets but only enough to set a transition in motion.

Contemporary Democrats and Neoconservatives would love to embroil the US in another bloody regime change war despite the long record of futility of these splendid jingoist adventures.

Just exactly what would the US getting its hands dirty in the Ukraine look like? Keep in mind none of the Biden regime responsible for the Afghanistan debacle have been replaced.
__________________
If Democrats were confident their nominee actually received more than 80 million votes they wouldn't have more troops occupying Washington, DC than Lincoln had defending the city during the Civil War. Not Joe Biden, Kim Jung Biden.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to AZRWinger For This Useful Post:
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2022, 09:21 AM
Lumara's Avatar
Belly Dance Queen
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Great Smoky Mountains
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,207
Thanks: 4,695
Thanked 4,138 Times in 1,976 Posts
Default Re: Does the administration not want Ukraine to prevail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
And why would it not want Ukraine to prevail?
Ukraine is part of Russia. It isn't a separate country with its own borders as people have been led to believe. Putin is saving fellow Russians in Ukraine from the Nazi thugs that took over that area. These Nazis are launching missiles from places like schools and hospitals, using the people there as human shields to make Russia look bad when it retaliates by taking out those munitions. Putin is also taking out bioweapon labs there.

You won't learn any of that that from the same legacy media that kept saying "Russian Collusion Russian Collusion Russian Collusion" while Trump was president.
__________________
"Wokeness gives people a shield to be mean and cruel, armored in false virtue." - Elon Musk

"What you want to do is appropriate women, you want to appropriate womanhood and turn it into basically a costume that could be worn!" - Matt Walsh to trans activist
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2022, 11:48 AM
cnredd's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Gender: Male
Posts: 57,346
Thanks: 2,461
Thanked 39,538 Times in 21,967 Posts
Default Re: Does the administration not want Ukraine to prevail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
What happens to the Russian nukes if Putin falls? Keep in mind there may be an extended period where control of their arsenal is fractured giving Generals and war lords a huge opportunity to sell off weapons for billions.
But that would happen whenever Putin leaves/gets killed/dies of natural causes...There' zero guarantees that whenever Putin loses his power (through natural means or otherwise), they'll be a clean transfer of power...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
A much preferable outcome would be a humiliated Putin focused on retaining power instead of conquest. Remember, Reagan put huge pressure on the Soviets but only enough to set a transition in motion.
Agreed, but Putin really stepped in it with the invasion...A "much preferable outcome" might not be reality...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Contemporary Democrats and Neoconservatives would love to embroil the US in another bloody regime change war despite the long record of futility of these splendid jingoist adventures.
It's actually the opposite...The LAST thing anyone wants is "regime change" in Ukraine...Any help (and I don't mean troops) is for KEEPING the same regime, unlike Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq, and Afghanistan...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Just exactly what would the US getting its hands dirty in the Ukraine look like? Keep in mind none of the Biden regime responsible for the Afghanistan debacle have been replaced.
According to this administration (not me), "getting their hands dirty" would mean ANY assistance that includes offensive military equipment...
__________________
"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2022, 06:53 PM
saltwn's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Esto perpetua
Posts: 88,589
Thanks: 57,236
Thanked 26,915 Times in 19,357 Posts
Send a message via AIM to saltwn Send a message via MSN to saltwn Send a message via Yahoo to saltwn
Default Re: Does the administration not want Ukraine to prevail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumara View Post
Ukraine is part of Russia. It isn't a separate country with its own borders as people have been led to believe. Putin is saving fellow Russians in Ukraine from the Nazi thugs that took over that area. These Nazis are launching missiles from places like schools and hospitals, using the people there as human shields to make Russia look bad when it retaliates by taking out those munitions. Putin is also taking out bioweapon labs there.

You won't learn any of that that from the same legacy media that kept saying "Russian Collusion Russian Collusion Russian Collusion" while Trump was president.
You slid all the way over. I am sad for you, sadder that for every yo there are hundreds more in America and thousands in other countries buying in to poo tin foil rhetoric.
__________________
During Trump's tenure, the US economy contracted 3.5% - the fastest rate since 1946. GDP growth was the worst since the Great Depression.
link

link
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2022, 06:56 PM
saltwn's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Esto perpetua
Posts: 88,589
Thanks: 57,236
Thanked 26,915 Times in 19,357 Posts
Send a message via AIM to saltwn Send a message via MSN to saltwn Send a message via Yahoo to saltwn
Default Re: Does the administration not want Ukraine to prevail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
But that would happen whenever Putin leaves/gets killed/dies of natural causes...There' zero guarantees that whenever Putin loses his power (through natural means or otherwise), they'll be a clean transfer of power...

Agreed, but Putin really stepped in it with the invasion...A "much preferable outcome" might not be reality...

It's actually the opposite...The LAST thing anyone wants is "regime change" in Ukraine...Any help (and I don't mean troops) is for KEEPING the same regime, unlike Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq, and Afghanistan...

According to this administration (not me), "getting their hands dirty" would mean ANY assistance that includes offensive military equipment...
you guys are tracking the truth. There is no one who knows how this will end.
__________________
During Trump's tenure, the US economy contracted 3.5% - the fastest rate since 1946. GDP growth was the worst since the Great Depression.
link

link
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2022, 12:04 PM
Conservative Sage
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 20,547
Thanks: 14,335
Thanked 15,674 Times in 8,956 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to AZRWinger
Default Re: Does the administration not want Ukraine to prevail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
But that would happen whenever Putin leaves/gets killed/dies of natural causes...There' zero guarantees that whenever Putin loses his power (through natural means or otherwise), they'll be a clean transfer of power...

Agreed, but Putin really stepped in it with the invasion...A "much preferable outcome" might not be reality...

It's actually the opposite...The LAST thing anyone wants is "regime change" in Ukraine...Any help (and I don't mean troops) is for KEEPING the same regime, unlike Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq, and Afghanistan...

According to this administration (not me), "getting their hands dirty" would mean ANY assistance that includes offensive military equipment...
There were multiple Soviet changes of leadership that were internally driven, none brought instability to the control of their nuclear arsenal. Yeltsin overcame a military coupe through popular internal pressure. Putin has a base of popular support that helps keep him in power. It seems internal forces have a history of changing Soviet and Russian regimes without destabilizing control of the nuclear weapons.

The outlook for a US orchestrated Russian regime change is far less sanguine than an internal power shift. The history of US regime changes is littered with bloody failures ending with worse regimes in charge than before the war.

But hey, nothing has zero chance of failure, all we can do is learn from history and realistically assess risk.

Biden's rash call for regime change targeted PUTIN not the Ukraine.

The Biden administration has reversed their policy banning weapons aid to the Ukraine at least according to the Hill.

Quote:
TheHill.com

INTERNATIONAL
Here’s everything the US is sending to Ukraine’s military
BY ELLEN MITCHELL - 03/16/22 6:39 PM ET
SHARE
TWEET
...
MORE

Associated Press/ Uncredited
President Biden on Wednesday announced $800 million in new lethal aid for Ukraine, bolstering U.S. support to the ex-Soviet nation as it ends the third week fighting Russian forces.

The latest tranche — part of the nearly $14 billion Congress appropriated for Ukrainian aid which Biden signed into law a day prior — brings the U.S. government’s total pledge of military assistance for the embattled nation to $1 billion in the past week and $2 billion since Biden took office.

The package includes anti-tank weapons, unmanned drones, small arms and ammunition among other crucial defense equipment.

The White House also said the U.S. is helping the Ukrainians “acquire additional, longer-range systems on which Ukraine’s forces are already trained, as well as additional munitions for those systems,”
https://thehill.com/policy/internati...ines-military/

Of course to Democrats needing a diversion from Biden’s failed administration and Neoconservatives thirsty for one more bloody US foreign war of regime change this isn’t enough. Never mind the $83 billion in modern weaponry gifted to the Taliban, it can't happen in the Ukraine.
__________________
If Democrats were confident their nominee actually received more than 80 million votes they wouldn't have more troops occupying Washington, DC than Lincoln had defending the city during the Civil War. Not Joe Biden, Kim Jung Biden.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2022, 01:06 PM
FrancSevin's Avatar
Runs with scissors
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: St Louis MO
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,071
Thanks: 11,328
Thanked 15,664 Times in 8,410 Posts
Default Re: Does the administration not want Ukraine to prevail?

I doubt Putin will suffer at home for this folly, no matter the outcome. His popular support during the war is actually climbing. His biggest threat comes not from the people of Russia but oligarchs and high up members of his government.

To that end he has become a bit paranoid. But the people believe this to be a just war. So, I don't think we can count on the mothers of sons, lost in the Ukraine, to oust Vladimir Putin.

As for our own leadership, we essentially have none. President Biden has been a lying politician all of his adult life. As my daddy used to warn, the problem with lying is keeping stories straight. Especially when you get older. First, there are too many lies of which to keep track and two, when you get older, you cannot remember all of the fabrications.

It appears, despite our lackluster support, Selensky's leadership is winning. At great cost unfortunately, but still attainable. However, just as Biden and his political party, sees nothing of value in the lives of the unborn, they have no guilt over the thousands of useless Ukraine and Russia deaths from Putin's attempt to gain mineral mining wealth and Black sea seaports.

As for President Biden, Rhetoric will change nothing. That, unfortunately, is the sum of his career and his work for the USA.

No matter the final winner/loser here, the end will be a disaster for both nations. Biden is no leader and therefore is lost in the confusion. And I assume he hopes, the USA can take neither credit or blame.
__________________
I am going to hang a Batman Costume in my closet. .......... Just to screw with myself when I get alzheimer's.
sola gratia, sola fide, sola scriptura.

I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN, I AM A FREEMAN, THE DEMOCRATS WORST NIGHTMARE

Last edited by FrancSevin; 04-04-2022 at 01:15 PM..
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to FrancSevin For This Useful Post:
Reply

Tags
administration, does, not, prevail, the, ukraine, want

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0