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Old 08-12-2020, 09:15 PM
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Default In a brilliant political move, Trump proposes tax cut for the wealthy

In a brilliant political move, Trump proposes tax cut for the wealthy

Quote:
For someone far more interested in how his presidency looks on TV than what it actually does, Donald Trump can be remarkably tone-deaf when it comes to the political implications of his policy proposals. But there are some things the president and his party are committed to, no matter how unpopular they might be.

So it is that, with 30 million Americans out of work and the country still in the midst of a pandemic that Trump has lost all interest in doing anything about, his administration has an answer to our economic troubles: Cut the capital gains tax!
I kid you not.

Quote:
Capital gains taxes are paid on things such as the sale of stocks, which is why they’re overwhelmingly paid by the wealthy. The fact that capital gains are taxed at all is deeply offensive to Republicans, and if the tax can’t be eliminated entirely, at the very least, they believe it should be lowered as much as possible.

A capital gains tax cut is the solution to both good times and bad: If the economy is doing well, we should cut the tax to reward virtuous job creators; if it’s doing poorly we should cut the tax to free up brutally imprisoned capital for more job creation. You see, standard Republican trickle-down economic theory says the way to achieve prosperity is to cut taxes for the rich, who in their beneficence will allow some of their windfall to trickle down to the commoners.

During a press briefing on Monday, the president made sure everyone knew how great the economy is doing, noting that “We’ve had some tremendous success already if you look at what’s happening with the stock market.” Then, he went on:

But the — we’re looking at also considering a capital gains tax cut, which would create a lot more jobs. So we’re looking very seriously at a capital gains tax cut and also at an income tax cut for middle-income families. We’re looking at expanding the tax cuts that we’ve already done, but specifically for middle-income families, and you’ll be hearing about that in the upcoming few weeks, and I think it’ll be very exciting.
So, a capital gains tax is going to be — a lot of — a lot of people put to work, and it would be a cut in the capital gains tax and also a cut in the middle-income income tax.
No one had any idea what kind of middle-class tax cut he was talking about, and Trump often says he is “looking at” something when he really isn’t. (In fact, he often answers “We’re looking at that very strongly” when asked a question on policy, which usually translates as “I have no idea what that is about but I’m going to pretend it’s something I’m deeply informed and active on.”)

In this case, however, the administration really is “looking at” a capital gains tax cut, or at least hoping for it. Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin told reporters on Wednesday that one of the key differences between Trump and former vice president Joe Biden is that the presumptive Democratic nominee wants to raise capital gains taxes while Trump wants to lower them. “While we recover, we should reduce those capital gains,” Mnuchin said.

But cutting the tax would require legislation, and with Democrats controlling the House, that won’t happen. Some believe, however, that the president might have the authority to order the Treasury Department to index capital gains to inflation, which would be the same as a cut. For instance, if you bought a stock 20 years ago for $100 and sold it for $150 today, you’d pay taxes not on the $50 profit but on $150 minus the inflation-adjusted value of $100 from 20 years ago. Which just happens to be $149.94, meaning you’d have to pay taxes on only $0.06.

You can see why that prospect would make Republicans’ hearts go aflutter. According to one analysis, 63 percent of the benefits of indexing capital gains to inflation would go to the richest one-tenth of one percent of Americans.

You almost have to admire Republicans’ commitment to principle. The election is less than three months away, the country is in the grip of a recession, and they’re proposing a tax cut for the wealthy. It’s not because some poll or focus group told them it was a good idea politically, because it’s an absolutely terrible idea. They’re doing it because they believe in it.

And Mnuchin is right: Biden does, indeed, want to raise the capital gains tax. In fact, Biden’s economic plan is probably more liberal than you realize, and on investment income, it embodies an idea some of us have been shouting about for years: We should just tax all income at the same rate. Instead of giving preferential treatment to investment income as we do now, we should tax it the same as wage income. There’s no reason that the money you make when your money makes you more money should be taxed at a lower rate than the money you earn by working. That’s how it works now, and it’s completely upside-down.

The income tax goes up to 37 percent, but the capital gains tax tops out at 20 percent. Biden proposes to tax them the same: if you make $50,000 from your job or $50,000 from selling a bunch of stock, it would be taxed at the same rate. It’s simple and logical, but it would mean a profound change from the status quo, in which the interests of rich people always come first.
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Old 08-13-2020, 07:32 AM
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Default Re: In a brilliant political move, Trump proposes tax cut for the wealthy

I'm not sure if you are aware of this (probably not), a lot of people outside of the rich, pay Capital Gains taxes. This affects small business owners, farmers and people looking to build retirement savings.

There is a good reason that Capital Gains taxes are significantly lower than standard income taxes. It is because the money used to purchase the commodity being taxed has already been taxed as income prior to being used to purchase said commodity.

President Obama proposed raising the Capital Gains tax rate even though it has been shown that increasing the tax would lower the revenue collected in taxes. When he was asked about his position, he brushed off the notion that the tax revenue would go down and instead claimed it was an issue of "fairness". In other words, it didn't matter if tax collection decreased, we have to punish people for making money. That was an appeal to those people stupid enough to believe that it is job of government to punish the rich.

I see it still works on that group of people.
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Old 08-13-2020, 07:58 AM
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Default Re: In a brilliant political move, Trump proposes tax cut for the wealthy

What's it going to take to rebuild the thousands of businesses destroyed in the BLM riots? Not class warfare rhetoric. Not double taxation on profits from investments. It's going to take capital investment. People make investments to rebuild where BLM destroys based on the expectation of profits. Burdening investment profits by taxing them as ordinary income discourages investment. Of course the government investments, bonds, are exempted from the taxes imposed on private investments making an overbearing government the more attractive option.

Trickle down economics is an entirely manufactured label created by socialistic Democrats to justify the same failed policies that created ruined economies like Venezuela.
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Old 08-20-2020, 01:04 PM
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Default Re: In a brilliant political move, Trump proposes tax cut for the wealthy

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
I'm not sure if you are aware of this (probably not), a lot of people outside of the rich, pay Capital Gains taxes. This affects small business owners, farmers and people looking to build retirement savings.

There is a good reason that Capital Gains taxes are significantly lower than standard income taxes. It is because the money used to purchase the commodity being taxed has already been taxed as income prior to being used to purchase said commodity.

President Obama proposed raising the Capital Gains tax rate even though it has been shown that increasing the tax would lower the revenue collected in taxes. When he was asked about his position, he brushed off the notion that the tax revenue would go down and instead claimed it was an issue of "fairness". In other words, it didn't matter if tax collection decreased, we have to punish people for making money. That was an appeal to those people stupid enough to believe that it is job of government to punish the rich.

I see it still works on that group of people.
Yep, When the left talks about "Rich People" they believe it is just the 1%. When in reality it is the 55% or more that have invested and saved money through hard work.

Democrats know that there are Trillions of dollars invested, and saved, and they want as much of it as they can get.

I believe that is why Dems are trying to bankrupt this country, so they will say they have no choice than to take peoples retirements, and investments.
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Old 08-22-2020, 06:49 AM
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Default Re: In a brilliant political move, Trump proposes tax cut for the wealthy

working on Capital Gains Tax right now is, at best, a waste of the President's and congress's time.
AND primarily benefits those in the LEAST trouble.

Seems to me that to imagine that a capital gains cut now is going to translate into, primarily, U.S. reinvestment to help rebuild riot effected biz and the U.S. economy as a whole, is a fantasy.

My understanding at this point is that those with extra cash to reinvest are waiting to see which way the economic wind blows.
Many are hunkering down and not doing anything with extra cash.
Some are shoring up the personal homefronts in various ways. And buying personal and biz insurance.
Some are looking at alternative investments like Gold and BitCoin for safe havens.
A few are looking for bargains as many other businesses and competitors fail. Or playing the crazy stock market.
Seems --as usual-- that those with extra cash simply want to maximize that cash. And this is not a good market to simply put that back on the streets.


So capital gains cash is unlikely to go into any major reinvestment of businesses targeted for riot relief or restoration . OR to deal with the pandemic's economic effects.
In those few cities where riots and looting are an issue, insurance companies and city,state and federal treasures will be paying the bulk of those bill.
Not people's capital gains.

And people's capital gains are not enough to keeping millions of employees on the payrolls or thousands of small businesses open an extra month or 2.
Seem the fact is the BULK of it would be going into the pockets of those who wouldn't really miss it. And who don't need it to pay the mortgage, rent or grocery bill.
While millions of Americans are out of work BECAUSE the government told everyone to shut down.

Trump's bank account will benefit and so will the Obama's and Nancy Pelosi's, and most of the other millionaire "representatives", D&R, and their wealthy backers/donors/handlers.
Are we really supposed to buy the idea that a capital gains tax is for the benefit of the most of the country or will trickle down to the areas most needed?
Cui bono
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Last edited by mr wonder; 08-22-2020 at 07:07 AM..
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Old 08-22-2020, 02:39 PM
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Default Re: In a brilliant political move, Trump proposes tax cut for the wealthy

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
working on Capital Gains Tax right now is, at best, a waste of the President's and congress's time.
AND primarily benefits those in the LEAST trouble.

Seems to me that to imagine that a capital gains cut now is going to translate into, primarily, U.S. reinvestment to help rebuild riot effected biz and the U.S. economy as a whole, is a fantasy.

My understanding at this point is that those with extra cash to reinvest are waiting to see which way the economic wind blows.
Many are hunkering down and not doing anything with extra cash.
Some are shoring up the personal homefronts in various ways. And buying personal and biz insurance.
Some are looking at alternative investments like Gold and BitCoin for safe havens.
A few are looking for bargains as many other businesses and competitors fail. Or playing the crazy stock market.
Seems --as usual-- that those with extra cash simply want to maximize that cash. And this is not a good market to simply put that back on the streets.


So capital gains cash is unlikely to go into any major reinvestment of businesses targeted for riot relief or restoration . OR to deal with the pandemic's economic effects.
In those few cities where riots and looting are an issue, insurance companies and city,state and federal treasures will be paying the bulk of those bill.
Not people's capital gains.

And people's capital gains are not enough to keeping millions of employees on the payrolls or thousands of small businesses open an extra month or 2.
Seem the fact is the BULK of it would be going into the pockets of those who wouldn't really miss it. And who don't need it to pay the mortgage, rent or grocery bill.
While millions of Americans are out of work BECAUSE the government told everyone to shut down.

Trump's bank account will benefit and so will the Obama's and Nancy Pelosi's, and most of the other millionaire "representatives", D&R, and their wealthy backers/donors/handlers.
Are we really supposed to buy the idea that a capital gains tax is for the benefit of the most of the country or will trickle down to the areas most needed?
Cui bono
Capital originated from wages taxed as ordinary income. Investing capital is at more risk and stands to benefit people by creating jobs. That is the rationale for taxing it at a lower rate.

A good number of the businesses gutted by BLM and Antifa riots will never recover. Business insurance typically doesn't cover civil insurrections. Franchises and large stores will understandably think twice about reopening in locations where Left wing Democrats are sympathetic to looters. Shoppers and employees will pay the price for these "reparations" plundered from shelves and cash registers.

The most need in the primarily Democrat controlled cities is for law and order. No rational investor is going to open a business is displaying your wares so looters know what to target. Oh wait, we'll just have the government pick winners and losers with targeted subsidies for political cronies.
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Old 08-24-2020, 10:34 AM
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Default Re: In a brilliant political move, Trump proposes tax cut for the wealthy

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Capital originated from wages taxed as ordinary income. Investing capital is at more risk and stands to benefit people by creating jobs. That is the rationale for taxing it at a lower rate.
That's the rational we've been fed by the Right since Reagan. I used to give it more credence than i do now. Sounds good in principal but to often in practice the only ones it really seems to work for are LARGE corps, big banks and big investment firms. Small biz and services seem exempt from much... if any... benefit of these so-called job creating tax cuts.
I suppose we could honestly debate the general benefits and liabilities of "Tax Cuts" but here's the thing in this particular case, this a capital gains tax proposal.
Lowering taxes on the profits from sales Capital assets like stocks, bonds, precious metals, jewelry, and real estate.
It's a tax cut for high upper-class and the rich, so they can keep more cash.
This is not money used to "create jobs".

But Republicans always try SELL every tax cut as benefit for the overall economy when in too many cases it's just a narrow giveaway to the upper-class.

We've all heard the pitch before.
Faithful right wingers should read the fine print on these tax cut deals.
To often it's a part of the "crony capitalism" that Sarah Palin and a few other conservatives occasional bring up.
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Old 08-24-2020, 11:30 AM
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Default Re: In a brilliant political move, Trump proposes tax cut for the wealthy

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
That's the rational we've been fed by the Right since Reagan. I used to give it more credence than i do now. Sounds good in principal but to often in practice the only ones it really seems to work for are LARGE corps, big banks and big investment firms. Small biz and services seem exempt from much... if any... benefit of these so-called job creating tax cuts.
I suppose we could honestly debate the general benefits and liabilities of "Tax Cuts" but here's the thing in this particular case, this a capital gains tax proposal.
Lowering taxes on the profits from sales Capital assets like stocks, bonds, precious metals, jewelry, and real estate.
It's a tax cut for high upper-class and the rich, so they can keep more cash.
This is not money used to "create jobs".

But Republicans always try SELL every tax cut as benefit for the overall economy when in too many cases it's just a narrow giveaway to the upper-class.

We've all heard the pitch before.
Faithful right wingers should read the fine print on these tax cut deals.
To often it's a part of the "crony capitalism" that Sarah Palin and a few other conservatives occasional bring up.



I believe you are partly correct in that the mega rich makes out the best, but when they do well it trickles down to smaller businesses.

I have a small construction supply business, and I depend on wealthy people and corporations building new projects.

I do believe what you said earlier about the rich holding on to money, waiting for favorable economic winds. I believe if Biden gets elected, they will continue to hold on to their money, and the ensuing recession will be blamed on Trump.

I also believe when Trump is re-elected, the money will flow freely, and EVERYONE will benefit, like they did before the virus hit.
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Old 08-24-2020, 12:23 PM
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Default Re: In a brilliant political move, Trump proposes tax cut for the wealthy

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
That's the rational we've been fed by the Right since Reagan. I used to give it more credence than i do now. Sounds good in principal but to often in practice the only ones it really seems to work for are LARGE corps, big banks and big investment firms. Small biz and services seem exempt from much... if any... benefit of these so-called job creating tax cuts.
I suppose we could honestly debate the general benefits and liabilities of "Tax Cuts" but here's the thing in this particular case, this a capital gains tax proposal.
Lowering taxes on the profits from sales Capital assets like stocks, bonds, precious metals, jewelry, and real estate.
It's a tax cut for high upper-class and the rich, so they can keep more cash.
This is not money used to "create jobs".

But Republicans always try SELL every tax cut as benefit for the overall economy when in too many cases it's just a narrow giveaway to the upper-class.

We've all heard the pitch before.
Faithful right wingers should read the fine print on these tax cut deals.
To often it's a part of the "crony capitalism" that Sarah Palin and a few other conservatives occasional bring up.
Everyone can make capital investment meaning everyone is eligible for lower capital gains tax rates. There are even firms offering fractional shares of stock for small investors. Shareholders, large and small, benefit from capital gains lower rates.

Business large or small require capital investment. Capital investment in turn leads to job creation. There isn't a way to create jobs without capital investment.

Crony capitalism is when government picks winners and losers for private industry. Under Obama GM, new Chrysler and Fiat all received billions of taxpayer dollars in subsidies. Obama even required the Federal government to purchase additional products from these cronies.
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