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Opinions & Editorials Discuss Billionaire Steyer Wants Trump Impeached and He May Run For President at the General Forum; Originally Posted by pjohns Your math is...well, interesting. True, there are 47 Democratic Senators (or will be, in less than ...

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Old 12-12-2018, 12:28 PM
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Default Re: Billionaire Steyer Wants Trump Impeached and He May Run For President

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Your math is...well, interesting.

True, there are 47 Democratic Senators (or will be, in less than a month).

And 67 votes are required to convict--a difference of 20.

But you appear to be assuming that all 47 Democrats will march in lockstep, to the Pied Piper (a.k.a. Chuck Schummer).

Yet some of these are doubtful.

In 2016, in Montana, Donald Trump won the presidential election by 56.2 percent to 35.7 percent--a 20.5 percentage-point margin.

At the same time, West Virginia went to Donald Trump by 68.50 percent to 26.43 percent--almost three to one.

True, Donald Trump has since said some not-so-nice things about Jon Tester and Joe Manchin (who are among the incumbent Democratic senators in those two states).

But that is just politics. (These words were uttered in the heat of battle during the 2018 senatorial elections.)

And my guess is that these senators would far rather please their respective constituents than to please Chuck Schumer.
If we get to the point that public opinion has turned against Trump enough to convince 20 Republicans to do the right thing, there’s almost no chance that any Democrats will stand with Trump.
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Old 12-12-2018, 12:50 PM
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Default Re: Billionaire Steyer Wants Trump Impeached and He May Run For President

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Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
If we get to the point that public opinion has turned against Trump enough to convince 20 Republicans to do the right thing, there’s almost no chance that any Democrats will stand with Trump.
It seems almost pointless to note that your words, "do the right thing," amount to a priori reasoning--a logical fallacy.

Impeachment (and, of course, the subsequent conviction) is no small thing. It is not to be taken lightly--as if it were, say, nothing more than a handy cudgel with which to batter anyone whom one may dislike--even strongly.

No, it is to be reserved for "high crimes and misdemeanors"--admittedly, a rather imprecise category. But no one might seriously suppose that President Trump has been guilty of these.

Remember, too, that to turn Donald Trump out of office, prematurely--through impeachment and conviction--would be, effectively, to overturn the will of the voters. And that is no small matter.
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Old 12-12-2018, 02:48 PM
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Default Re: Billionaire Steyer Wants Trump Impeached and He May Run For President

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
It seems almost pointless to note that your words, "do the right thing," amount to a priori reasoning--a logical fallacy.

Impeachment (and, of course, the subsequent conviction) is no small thing. It is not to be taken lightly--as if it were, say, nothing more than a handy cudgel with which to batter anyone whom one may dislike--even strongly.

No, it is to be reserved for "high crimes and misdemeanors"--admittedly, a rather imprecise category. But no one might seriously suppose that President Trump has been guilty of these.

Remember, too, that to turn Donald Trump out of office, prematurely--through impeachment and conviction--would be, effectively, to overturn the will of the voters. And that is no small matter.
It’s just my opinion, but I believe that there’s more than enough evidence to impeach already. I agree that it’s no small matter to overturn the results of the election, but I don’t think that it serves any real Constitutional principle to uphold election results so fundamentally tainted by the criminal actions of a foreign adversary, with the apparent complicity of the winning candidate.
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Old 12-12-2018, 05:24 PM
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Default Re: Billionaire Steyer Wants Trump Impeached and He May Run For President

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Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
It’s just my opinion, but I believe that there’s more than enough evidence to impeach already. I agree that it’s no small matter to overturn the results of the election, but I don’t think that it serves any real Constitutional principle to uphold election results so fundamentally tainted by the criminal actions of a foreign adversary, with the apparent complicity of the winning candidate.
Certainly, Russia attempted to interfere in the 2016 presidential election. No disagreement there.

But what, exactly, is the "apparent complicity" of Donald Trump in this matter?

Do you really imagine that anyone other than the hard left believes that Donald Trump was "complicit" in this--or that it changed the results in even one state?
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Old 12-12-2018, 07:33 PM
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Default Re: Billionaire Steyer Wants Trump Impeached and He May Run For President

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Certainly, Russia attempted to interfere in the 2016 presidential election. No disagreement there.

But what, exactly, is the "apparent complicity" of Donald Trump in this matter?

Do you really imagine that anyone other than the hard left believes that Donald Trump was "complicit" in this--or that it changed the results in even one state?
It doesn't matter whether it changed any results. Criminal attempts to swing an election are illegal, even if they don’t work. And, the “apparent complicity” is the fact that at least 14 Trump advisors were secretly in contact with Russian officials during the campaign, admittedly seeking business and political favors from them, and then repeatedly lied about it, all while Russian officials were engaged in multiple felonies to help the Trump campaign.
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Old 12-12-2018, 07:53 PM
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Default Re: Billionaire Steyer Wants Trump Impeached and He May Run For President

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
I've asked any number of people, and have yet to receive an educated answer. What does impeachment mean, and what happens if it should occur?

I would bet if you ask X number of people on the street, they could not give an educated answer, but they would be all for/against it.....

And BTW, they still haven't solidified any basis for it, even to bring it forward. After two years, it's getting weaker and weaker. If it were to happen, some people won't be liking the results. Be careful what you wish for...….
charge an elected official with high crimes and/or misdemeanors.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:05 PM
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Default Re: Billionaire Steyer Wants Trump Impeached and He May Run For President

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Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
It doesn't matter whether it changed any results. Criminal attempts to swing an election are illegal, even if they don’t work. And, the “apparent complicity” is the fact that at least 14 Trump advisors were secretly in contact with Russian officials during the campaign, admittedly seeking business and political favors from them, and then repeatedly lied about it, all while Russian officials were engaged in multiple felonies to help the Trump campaign.
This is the wet dream of the hard left: Just indict (and even convict) enough people close to Donald Trump, and the walls will (somehow) close in on the man...
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Old 12-13-2018, 06:48 AM
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Default Re: Billionaire Steyer Wants Trump Impeached and He May Run For President

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Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
It doesn't matter whether it changed any results. Criminal attempts to swing an election are illegal, even if they don’t work. And, the “apparent complicity” is the fact that at least 14 Trump advisors were secretly in contact with Russian officials during the campaign, admittedly seeking business and political favors from them, and then repeatedly lied about it, all while Russian officials were engaged in multiple felonies to help the Trump campaign.
The conspiracy theory falls apart without the bitter Resistance imagination turning every contact with a Russian into a crime. Mueller's investigation hasn't uncovered any evidence of conspiracy with Russians despite a campaign of police state tactics designed to compel the targets of his partisan political sabotage to produce false testimony.

It's a spectacular triumph of partisan propaganda when Mueller is lauded as the guardian of law and order for turning his so-called investigation of Russian interference in the election into a crime generating unaccountable 4th branch of government. The brazenly partisan charges of lying brought by the Democrat zealot lynch mob hand picked by Mueller for their rabid prosecutorial excess would never have happened without the abusive tactics of the witch hunt. These special counsel investigations are supposed to investigate criminal activity occurring before they are chartered not use the investigation as a vehicle to attack a political campaign by turning every misstatement into a criminal charge.
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