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Opinions & Editorials Discuss In re: Trump's legal team's theory at the General Forum; Originally Posted by cnredd First, Mueller's team are experts at leaking...We knew every little step of Michael Flynn's & Paul ...

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Old 08-12-2018, 01:58 PM
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Default Re: In re: Trump's legal team's theory

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
First, Mueller's team are experts at leaking...We knew every little step of Michael Flynn's & Paul Manafort's part of the investigation, practically, as it was happening...

...It's pretty hard to logically believe they leak everything BUT anything on the biggest fish they're trying to frame...

Peter Stzrok, himself, in one of his texts to Lisa Page, actually said "There's no big there there." when referring to the Russia investigation...and he was part of the darned thing...
I'm not a mind reader, I know what I did, how and why. The Chief and his deputies had a different role, i.e. politics. I know, because I too advanced into that inner circle and decided to put in my papers as soon as my ducks were all in a line. It took three years, but greatly enhanced my retirement.

As for one data point, an opinion to which he may or may not have been privy, is just that. We heard from the head of the FBI, the NSA and HS what Russia did and is doing. I don't have a crystal ball, thus I will wait to see what Mueller and his team conclude.

Many times the road followed leads to an arrest and criminal complaints. Sometime exculpatory evidence is uncovered, and the subject could not have committed the crime. But, when a crime occurred, such evidence may lead to other subjects, and so a new route is taken.
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Old 08-12-2018, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: In re: Trump's legal team's theory

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Originally Posted by Wry Catcher View Post
As for one data point, an opinion to which he may or may not have been privy, is just that. We heard from the head of the FBI, the NSA and HS what Russia did and is doing. I don't have a crystal ball, thus I will wait to see what Mueller and his team conclude.
But you're omitting something very important from your data point...

Past behavior...

Let's look at what Russia did BEFORE Trump...

2015...

How the U.S. thinks Russians hacked the White House

Also 2015...

Russian hackers stole U.S. cyber secrets from NSA: media reports

2014...

Obama team was warned in 2014 about Russian interference

Also 2014...

Russian Agents Were Behind Yahoo Hack, U.S. Says

2008...

RUSSIAN HACKERS ATTACKED THE 2008 OBAMA CAMPAIGN

There's two camps right now...

I'm in the camp that says "Russia tried to interfere with the 2016 elections, but that is STATUS QUO...They've been hacking for YEARS and 2016 is par for the course!"...

The illogical camp is one that says "I'm going to pretend that the previous MULTIPLE INSTANCES of Russian interference, pre-Trump, don't count and ONLY the 2016 instance matters, because I hate that Trump became president!"...

It's utterly absurd to call, what the Russians do, "an act of war" after YEARS of silence when they did the same thing...time...and time...again...
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Old 08-12-2018, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: In re: Trump's legal team's theory

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Originally Posted by Wry Catcher View Post
"President Trump's lawyer, Jay Sekulow, on Sunday blasted special counsel Robert Mueller's review of the president's tweets for possible obstruction of justice, calling it "absurd."

"Obstruction of justice by tweet is absurd," Sekulow said on ABC's "This Week."
"The president has a First Amendment right to put his opinions out there."


Sekulow: Obstruction of justice by tweet is absurd | TheHill

What is absurd is Trump's Lawyer's 'legal judgment' that President Trump is above the law. Such an argument has been tossed onto the trash heap of history in our county since the ratification of our Constitution and the Separation of Powers principle was established.

Clearly, obstruction of justice is in play, in the tweets and speeches of The President. See:

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34303.pdf



Obstruction of justice is the impediment of governmental activities. There are a host of federal criminal laws that prohibit obstructions of justice. The six most general outlaw obstruction of judicial proceedings:


(18 U.S.C. 1503), witness tampering (18 U.S.C. 1512), witness retaliation

(18 U.S.C. 1513), obstruction of congressional or administrative proceedings

(18 U.S.C. 1505)conspiracy to defraud the United States

(18 U.S.C. 371) and contempt (a creature of statute, rule
and common law).
Giuliani and Trump are fighting this battle in the court of public opinion.
Unfortunately for each of them, the rule of law doesn't consider public opinion.
Unfortunately for America, any removal attempts if corruption is found, will lead to riots.
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Old 08-12-2018, 06:32 PM
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Default Re: In re: Trump's legal team's theory

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
But you're omitting something very important from your data point...

Past behavior...

Let's look at what Russia did BEFORE Trump...

2015...

How the U.S. thinks Russians hacked the White House

Also 2015...

Russian hackers stole U.S. cyber secrets from NSA: media reports

2014...

Obama team was warned in 2014 about Russian interference

Also 2014...

Russian Agents Were Behind Yahoo Hack, U.S. Says

2008...

RUSSIAN HACKERS ATTACKED THE 2008 OBAMA CAMPAIGN

There's two camps right now...

I'm in the camp that says "Russia tried to interfere with the 2016 elections, but that is STATUS QUO...They've been hacking for YEARS and 2016 is par for the course!"...

The illogical camp is one that says "I'm going to pretend that the previous MULTIPLE INSTANCES of Russian interference, pre-Trump, don't count and ONLY the 2016 instance matters, because I hate that Trump became president!"...

It's utterly absurd to call, what the Russians do, "an act of war" after YEARS of silence when they did the same thing...time...and time...again...
Close but no cigar.

https://www.politifact.com/north-car...ies-tried-int/
this is the first instance we know of that russia has influenced a U. S. election to favor one candidate.
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Old 08-12-2018, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: In re: Trump's legal team's theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
First, Mueller's team are experts at leaking...We knew every little step of Michael Flynn's & Paul Manafort's part of the investigation, practically, as it was happening...

...It's pretty hard to logically believe they leak everything BUT anything on the biggest fish they're trying to frame...

Peter Stzrok, himself, in one of his texts to Lisa Page, actually said "There's no big there there." when referring to the Russia investigation...and he was part of the darned thing...
Devon Nunes

better known as NBC

and other republicans and their aides
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Old 08-12-2018, 07:15 PM
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Default Re: In re: Trump's legal team's theory

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Close but no cigar.

https://www.politifact.com/north-car...ies-tried-int/
this is the first instance we know of that russia has influenced a U. S. election to favor one candidate.
And here's what it says right afterward...

Quote:
Historians agree that what Burr said probably isnít literally true.
They talked to TWO so-called "historians"...One from Lefty Harvard and one from Lefty U. of Connecticut...
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Old 08-12-2018, 08:02 PM
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Default Re: In re: Trump's legal team's theory

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
And here's what it says right afterward...

They talked to TWO so-called "historians"...One from Lefty Harvard and one from Lefty U. of Connecticut...
Find a link that says otherwise. I already tried
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Old 08-12-2018, 09:52 PM
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Default Re: In re: Trump's legal team's theory

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Originally Posted by Wry Catcher View Post
In how many criminal investigations have you participated? I've done many, and the investigation process requires diligence, and follow up. My mentor advised me on day one not to make a decision until I had interviewed each witness twice, and if necessary a third time. The interviews / interrogations are recorded, and on the second or third go around, inconsistencies abound when the subject has not been truthful.

Then when confronted by his or her lies, more roads on the investigation develop as the subject seeks to cooperate, and names persons, places and things to be examined. It's fun, much like a puzzle.
Again you are speculating. After more than a year of investigation, in the most high profile trial to date Mueller's team has admitted to the court they will not present evidence of collusion with the Russians. None of the other Trump associates has been charged with collusion or conspiring with the Russians either.

It's all well and good that you have experience with criminal investigations but you conveniently omit any processes or procedures whereby a subject is determined not to have committed the crime under investigation. Mueller's approach shares this deficiency. But as a special council Mueller doesn't need to restrain his self righteousness, under his direction Trump's former campaign manager was roughed up by Federal marshals and is now held in solitary confinement accused of crimes that supposedly occurred before he had any association with Trump.

Mueller was studiously uninterested in investigating Tony Podesta who worked closely with Trump's former campaign manager. None of those followups you described were of interest to Mueller's crack team of investigators.
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:47 AM
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Default Re: In re: Trump's legal team's theory

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Again you are speculating. After more than a year of investigation, in the most high profile trial to date Mueller's team has admitted to the court they will not present evidence of collusion with the Russians. None of the other Trump associates has been charged with collusion or conspiring with the Russians either.

It's all well and good that you have experience with criminal investigations but you conveniently omit any processes or procedures whereby a subject is determined not to have committed the crime under investigation. Mueller's approach shares this deficiency. But as a special council Mueller doesn't need to restrain his self righteousness, under his direction Trump's former campaign manager was roughed up by Federal marshals and is now held in solitary confinement accused of crimes that supposedly occurred before he had any association with Trump.

Mueller was studiously uninterested in investigating Tony Podesta who worked closely with Trump's former campaign manager. None of those followups you described were of interest to Mueller's crack team of investigators.
Damn AZ! It is almost like you see right through sock puppet's anecdotal relations about his "retired LEO manager" past. Now c'mon, stop being logical! Just accept the sock puppet's new character notes and buy into the flimsy BS his anecdotes offer. It is damn annoying when posters like you actually "think" don't ya know?
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