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Opinions & Editorials Discuss In re: Trump's legal team's theory at the General Forum; Originally Posted by Wry Catcher And I have met and defeated Trumpanzees countless times. Time will tell if President Trump ...

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Old 08-11-2018, 05:19 PM
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Default Re: In re: Trump's legal team's theory

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Originally Posted by Wry Catcher View Post
And I have met and defeated Trumpanzees countless times. Time will tell if President Trump is guilty of high crimes and misdemeanors; the evidence he has provided in tweets and speeches is clearly his effort to obstruct justice, i.e. the Investigation of the Russian Cyber Attack on our Country.
The braggadocio might be a tiny bit more convincing if you weren't showing off your ignorance with a fake Jefferson quote as a sign.

Likewise, the claim that Trump's tweets or other public communications suggesting Mueller's witchhunt be terminated betrays a lack of sober analysis and a surplus of partisan hatred.

Mueller's inquisition has had zero impact on Russian interference with our elections past and future. The Resistance can only reflexively praise their last faded hope for reversing the election as he fashions futile indictments of Russian intelligence officials and brutalizes former campaign officials for the "crime" of supporting Trump. That's a classic Stalin era KGB campaign of political repression. Support for Mueller's malignant abuse of his office is the real danger to our Republic.
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Old 08-11-2018, 05:47 PM
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Default Re: In re: Trump's legal team's theory

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The braggadocio might be a tiny bit more convincing if you weren't showing off your ignorance with a fake Jefferson quote as a sign.

Likewise, the claim that Trump's tweets or other public communications suggesting Mueller's witchhunt be terminated betrays a lack of sober analysis and a surplus of partisan hatred.

Mueller's inquisition has had zero impact on Russian interference with our elections past and future. The Resistance can only reflexively praise their last faded hope for reversing the election as he fashions futile indictments of Russian intelligence officials and brutalizes former campaign officials for the "crime" of supporting Trump. That's a classic Stalin era KGB campaign of political repression. Support for Mueller's malignant abuse of his office is the real danger to our Republic.
You have no clue what Mueller and his team have uncovered, nor do I. Claiming the Mueller investigation is a "witch hunt" is nothing more than an echo of Trump's effort to obstruct justice.

You've not seen any documents, nor the transcript of any interview, and yet claim this is a witch hunt. This claim renders any conclusion you will post as incredulous.

Mea culpa, https://www.monticello.org/site/rese...e-becomes-duty
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Old 08-11-2018, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: In re: Trump's legal team's theory

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Originally Posted by Wry Catcher View Post
You have no clue what Mueller and his team have uncovered, nor do I. Claiming the Mueller investigation is a "witch hunt" is nothing more than an echo of Trump's effort to obstruct justice.

You've not seen any documents, nor the transcript of any interview, and yet claim this is a witch hunt. This claim renders any conclusion you will post as incredulous.

Mea culpa, https://www.monticello.org/site/rese...e-becomes-duty
Ah yes, devolve into speculation or more appropriately fantasy, about Mueller's secret cache of so-called evidence. Never mind his hand picked crew of rabid, Trump hating partisans has been at it for more than a year with no production of evidence for the Trump Russia collusion conspiracy theory.

It's telling that someone who claims to be so adept at defeating Trump supporters avoids any mention of the publicly available information about Mueller's witchhunt references in my earlier comment. Instead, all you offer is vapid rhetoric insisting Mueller deserves to continue his witchhunt despite the evidence he is conducting a campaign of political sabotage.
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Old 08-11-2018, 07:56 PM
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Default Re: In re: Trump's legal team's theory

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Ah yes, devolve into speculation or more appropriately fantasy, about Mueller's secret cache of so-called evidence. Never mind his hand picked crew of rabid, Trump hating partisans has been at it for more than a year with no production of evidence for the Trump Russia collusion conspiracy theory.

It's telling that someone who claims to be so adept at defeating Trump supporters avoids any mention of the publicly available information about Mueller's witchhunt references in my earlier comment. Instead, all you offer is vapid rhetoric insisting Mueller deserves to continue his witchhunt despite the evidence he is conducting a campaign of political sabotage.
In how many criminal investigations have you participated? I've done many, and the investigation process requires diligence, and follow up. My mentor advised me on day one not to make a decision until I had interviewed each witness twice, and if necessary a third time. The interviews / interrogations are recorded, and on the second or third go around, inconsistencies abound when the subject has not been truthful.

Then when confronted by his or her lies, more roads on the investigation develop as the subject seeks to cooperate, and names persons, places and things to be examined. It's fun, much like a puzzle.
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Old 08-11-2018, 10:26 PM
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Default Re: In re: Trump's legal team's theory

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Originally Posted by Wry Catcher View Post
You have no clue what Mueller and his team have uncovered, nor do I. Claiming the Mueller investigation is a "witch hunt" is nothing more than an echo of Trump's effort to obstruct justice.

You've not seen any documents, nor the transcript of any interview, and yet claim this is a witch hunt. This claim renders any conclusion you will post as incredulous.

Mea culpa, https://www.monticello.org/site/rese...e-becomes-duty
They only listen to fake news. They're afraid of the truth cuz Trump told em NYT and CNN are scary.
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Old 08-12-2018, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: In re: Trump's legal team's theory

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Originally Posted by Wry Catcher View Post
"President Trump's lawyer, Jay Sekulow, on Sunday blasted special counsel Robert Mueller's review of the president's tweets for possible obstruction of justice, calling it "absurd."
"Obstruction of justice by tweet is absurd," Sekulow said on ABC's "This Week."
"The president has a First Amendment right to put his opinions out there."

Sekulow: Obstruction of justice by tweet is absurd | TheHill
What is absurd is Trump's Lawyer's 'legal judgment' that President Trump is above the law. Such an argument has been tossed onto the trash heap of history in our county since the ratification of our Constitution and the Separation of Powers principle was established.
Clearly, obstruction of justice is in play, in the tweets and speeches of The President. See:
https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34303.pdf
Obstruction of justice is the impediment of governmental activities. There are a host of federal criminal laws that prohibit obstructions of justice. The six most general outlaw obstruction of judicial proceedings:(18 U.S.C. 1503), witness tampering (18 U.S.C. 1512), witness retaliation
(18 U.S.C. 1513), obstruction of congressional or administrative proceedings
(18 U.S.C. 1505)conspiracy to defraud the United States
(18 U.S.C. 371) and contempt (a creature of statute, rule
and common law).

Ok Obstuction of Justice is a serious charge.
it's not Collusion with a forign country to effect an election BUT it is a serious charge.
and in my laymens legal opinion it's POSSIBLE that Trump or someone COULD do it in using tweets.
by clear threats of consequences and the like.

my problem with this accusations... as with many others in this Trump Investigation... is what EXACTLY did Trump DO ... in this case TWEET... that qualifies for a SOLID obstruction of Justice charge against him?
No examples are given here I don't think. Just list of ways Obstruction of Justice can be done.

But also i'd like to know if anyone else in the US has ever been charged with obstruction of Justice By Tweet, or would Trump be the 1st? Is it possible that could be true? no one else has ever done it by Tweet but him?

And on it's face it seems like the prosecutors are REACHING for something to nail him on. I mean if they really had a lot classified and/or simply unrevealed evidence to nail him with other serious criminal charges. Then they wouldn't be bothering to bring up his crazy tweets.
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Old 08-12-2018, 12:59 PM
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Default Re: In re: Trump's legal team's theory

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Originally Posted by Wry Catcher View Post
HRC is yesterday's news. The Specious Allegations bore no fruit, even after years of investigations on Benghazi by the GOP, and the number of Rally's wherein Trumpanzees chanted in chorus, "lock her up". All of this based on allegations made by Trump that she destroyed evidence.

As the man said, "Trust but verify"; I'm sure RR was thinking of Trump even then.
HRC maybe yesterdays news but does anyone know what the statute of limitations is on the crime of obstruction of justice?
Seems to me there are SEVERAL Instances ...not just allegations ... that would put her and her people in jail for obstruction.

From the table of contents of one of the links you provided there are several items that i think would apply to HRC, but one is very clear:
Obstruction of Justice by Destruction of Evidence
Obstruction of Investigations by Destruction of Evidence (18 U.S.C. 1519)
Destruction of Property to Prevent Seizure (18 U.S.C. 2232(a))
Obstruction of Justice by Deception
Perjury Generally (18 U.S.C. 1621) 71
She and her crew used industrial strength file eraser software to clear hardrives and mobile devices and literally destroyed phones and tablets with hammers to avoid having them being reviewed in legal and congressional investigations.
Seems to me that's about as clear of obstruction of "justice" and "investigation" "by Destruction of Evidence" "to Prevent Seizure "as a prosecutor would need.

Also she's on record publicly lying about not having classified info on personal equipment. And given several version of that story.
Obstruction of Justice by Deception
Perjury Generally
and those are just 2 obvious items that show her criminality.
so again it's legit to ask about her. And what's the statute of limitations on obstruction of justice? do ya See that anywhere in your legal links?
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Last edited by mr wonder; 08-12-2018 at 01:04 PM..
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Old 08-12-2018, 01:04 PM
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Default Re: In re: Trump's legal team's theory

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Ok Obstuction of Justice is a serious charge.
it's not Collusion with a forign country to effect an election BUT it is a serious charge.
and in my laymens legal opinion it's POSSIBLE that Trump or someone COULD do it in using tweets.
by clear threats of consequences and the like.

my problem with this accusations... as with many others in this Trump Investigation... is what EXACTLY did Trump DO ... in this case TWEET... that qualifies for a SOLID obstruction of Justice charge against him?
No examples are given here I don't think. Just list of ways Obstruction of Justice can be done.

But also i'd like to know if anyone else in the US has ever been charged with obstruction of Justice By Tweet, or would Trump be the 1st? Is it possible that could be true? no one else has ever done it by Tweet but him?

And on it's face it seems like the prosecutors are REACHING for something to nail him on. I mean if they really had a lot classified and/or simply unrevealed evidence to nail him with other serious criminal charges. Then they wouldn't be bothering to bring up his crazy tweets.
I don't believe the Mueller Team is seeking to nail Trump; as someone who investigated crimes I know such a strategy is a waste of time and money.

The investigator follows a road which leads them to a subject(s) - which can begin as simple as a tweet - which implies a motive (consciousness of guilt); of course without means and opportunity, motive alone is insufficient to make a conclusion. Means and opportunity are sufficient to move forward.

Thus beings the effort to collect evidence: documentary, interviews & interrogations, which will open more avenues to pursue. The process can be very long, and intellectually fun and challenging.
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Old 08-12-2018, 01:30 PM
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Default Re: In re: Trump's legal team's theory

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Originally Posted by Wry Catcher View Post
I don't believe the Mueller Team is seeking to nail Trump; as someone who investigated crimes I know such a strategy is a waste of time and money.

The investigator follows a road which leads them to a subject(s) - which can begin as simple as a tweet - which implies a motive (consciousness of guilt); of course without means and opportunity, motive alone is insufficient to make a conclusion. Means and opportunity are sufficient to move forward.

Thus beings the effort to collect evidence: documentary, interviews & interrogations, which will open more avenues to pursue. The process can be very long, and intellectually fun and challenging.
Kinda sounds like a fishing expedition wry. just sayin'
'The process can be very long, and intellectually fun and challenging.'
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Old 08-12-2018, 01:35 PM
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Default Re: In re: Trump's legal team's theory

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Originally Posted by Wry Catcher View Post
You have no clue what Mueller and his team have uncovered, nor do I. Claiming the Mueller investigation is a "witch hunt" is nothing more than an echo of Trump's effort to obstruct justice.

You've not seen any documents, nor the transcript of any interview, and yet claim this is a witch hunt. This claim renders any conclusion you will post as incredulous.
First, Mueller's team are experts at leaking...We knew every little step of Michael Flynn's & Paul Manafort's part of the investigation, practically, as it was happening...

...It's pretty hard to logically believe they leak everything BUT anything on the biggest fish they're trying to frame...

Peter Stzrok, himself, in one of his texts to Lisa Page, actually said "There's no big there there." when referring to the Russia investigation...and he was part of the darned thing...
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