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Old 12-10-2017, 07:10 PM
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Default "Why I Left the Left"

Former "Young Turk" host Dave Rubin on "Why I Left the Left"
very clear assessment of the current "progressivism" and why it's not Liberal anymore.

"Dave Rubin of The Rubin Report used to be a big progressive. He even had a show with The Young Turks! But now he's not a progressive. He has left the left. Why? Dave Rubin shares his story."

makes clear WHY it makes no sense to FORCE others to conform against their beliefs.

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Old 12-10-2017, 07:25 PM
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Default Re: "Why I Left the Left"

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
Former "Young Turk" host Dave Rubin on "Why I Left the Left"
very clear assessment of the current "progressivism" and why it's not Liberal anymore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiVQ8vrGA_8

"Dave Rubin of The Rubin Report used to be a big progressive. He even had a show with The Young Turks! But now he's not a progressive. He has left the left. Why? Dave Rubin shares his story."

makes clear WHY it makes no sense to FORCE others to conform against their beliefs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq86Beh3T70
I hear ya, and on the stopping free speech on campuses I tend to agree. However, it was once "against" some people's "religion" not to allow blacks and whites to marry. And, in the case of the sisters of the poor, we adhere to a rule of law not a rule of religion. Everyone in the world who can think agrees the Catholic church's stance on birth control has been a lifelong sentence of poverty to women and families in latin nations and a death sentence to some.
And while you may think it is only liberals who headline and cajole political hyperbole, I would ask you if it is "moral" to ask a hungry homeless man to attend a church service in order to glean a meal, for that is exactly how some of the misguided of the faith pursue signing up saints.
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Old 12-10-2017, 08:53 PM
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Default Re: "Why I Left the Left"

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
I hear ya, and on the stopping free speech on campuses I tend to agree.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
However, it was once "against" some people's "religion" not to allow blacks and whites to marry.
not when the religious people (Christians i presume) actually FOLLOW the text of the scripture rather than the social fashion.
Moses was Married to an Ethiopian woman.
In Rome blacks and whites married, in Spain and other parts of Europe for centuries it wasn't uncommon or against the law.
Among the sins of slavery was added the social and "scientific" excuses.
"Religion" as been misused by many but you can't consistently lay that at the feet of religion. But if you want to say the KKK is a religious group. OK, If so it's a "christian" cult. And event with them we don't force KKK members to bake cakes for mix raced weddings.

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
And, in the case of the sisters of the poor, we adhere to a rule of law not a rule of religion. [
the highest LAW of the land says that people have freedom of religion. To the point that if a person says they don't believe in WAR they can be exempt from the draft. so the Sisters and ANYONE else with sincerely held religious beliefs SHOULD NOT be forced by lower "laws" to directly contribute in abortion. It's a VIOLATION of the constitution.

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Everyone in the world who can think agrees the Catholic church's stance on birth control has been a lifelong sentence of poverty to women and families in latin nations and a death sentence to some.
they can think what they like and NOT join the Catholic church. Or not obey that particular teaching if they are in the RCC.
I'm not sure what that has to do with the subject though

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
And while you may think it is only liberals who headline and cajole political hyperbole,
C'mon Saltwn you've read many of my post, It's a bit unfair to say that i "think it's ONLY LIBERALS that ..." that's not true and you know it.

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
I would ask you if it is "moral" to ask a hungry homeless man to attend a church service in order to glean a meal, for that is exactly how some of the misguided of the faith pursue signing up saints.

I think it's , as you say, "misguided" and possibly counter productive but i wouldn't say it's immoral.
I mean if a shop keeper asked a "hungry homeless man" to sweep up the shop BEFORE he gave him a meal would that be immoral. I'd say no.
Is it the friendliness way to approach the situation? No, but it's not immoral to ask for something in exchange. And sitting through a talk is a small price to pay seems to me. Personally If i were homeless and hungry I pretty much wouldn't care WHAT they were talking about I'd sit and listen to nearly any kind of religious pitch, or biz pitch, or lies about how good the local sports team was... And i wouldn’t take offense at the request.

Of course if the homeless guy was barely able to function because of lack of food or water. then that's another story. Yes, it's immoral to ask that person to do anything. But most of the homeless people i've dealt with aren't really at that point.

But saltwn, what does A required sermon for "hungry homeless man" to get meal have to do with Progressives being Illiberal in matters of law and politics? i don’t get the connection
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Old 12-10-2017, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: "Why I Left the Left"

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
Agreed.


not when the religious people (Christians i presume) actually FOLLOW the text of the scripture rather than the social fashion.
Moses was Married to an Ethiopian woman.
In Rome blacks and whites married, in Spain and other parts of Europe for centuries it wasn't uncommon or against the law.
Among the sins of slavery was added the social and "scientific" excuses.
"Religion" as been misused by many but you can't consistently lay that at the feet of religion. But if you want to say the KKK is a religious group. OK, If so it's a "christian" cult. And event with them we don't force KKK members to bake cakes for mix raced weddings.


the highest LAW of the land says that people have freedom of religion. To the point that if a person says they don't believe in WAR they can be exempt from the draft. so the Sisters and ANYONE else with sincerely held religious beliefs SHOULD NOT be forced by lower "laws" to directly contribute in abortion. It's a VIOLATION of the constitution.


they can think what they like and NOT join the Catholic church. Or not obey that particular teaching if they are in the RCC.
I'm not sure what that has to do with the subject though



C'mon Saltwn you've read many of my post, It's a bit unfair to say that i "think it's ONLY LIBERALS that ..." that's not true and you know it.




I think it's , as you say, "misguided" and possibly counter productive but i wouldn't say it's immoral.
I mean if a shop keeper asked a "hungry homeless man" to sweep up the shop BEFORE he gave him a meal would that be immoral. I'd say no.
Is it the friendliness way to approach the situation? No, but it's not immoral to ask for something in exchange. And sitting through a talk is a small price to pay seems to me. Personally If i were homeless and hungry I pretty much wouldn't care WHAT they were talking about I'd sit and listen to nearly any kind of religious pitch, or biz pitch, or lies about how good the local sports team was... And i wouldn’t take offense at the request.

Of course if the homeless guy was barely able to function because of lack of food or water. then that's another story. Yes, it's immoral to ask that person to do anything. But most of the homeless people i've dealt with aren't really at that point.

But saltwn, what does A required sermon for "hungry homeless man" to get meal have to do with Progressives being Illiberal in matters of law and politics? i don’t get the connection
the church dominates the lives of millions of underprivileged people. they don't have a "choice" in giving up the church. clearly you can see that. i wud further it is immoral for the rcc NOT to say bc is ok.

hungry homeless man- bribery of a basic need? is immorality in its essence. most homeless people are literally one meal away from poor health. do I miss the meal today and risk my health or take their sermon (tho i'm another religion or atheist), and eat. I wud think it will swear many off the faith for good.

Quote:
C'mon Saltwn you've read many of my post, It's a bit unfair to say that i "think it's ONLY LIBERALS that ..." that's not true and you know it.
yes you are not that bad; mostly i included that for the general readership and shud have so stipulated.

As to the begining of your post. the way we "ought to act," and the way even churches "have" acted are two different things. In politics we must deal in realities when legislating to right an injustice.
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Old 12-10-2017, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: "Why I Left the Left"

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
the church dominates the lives of millions of underprivileged people. they don't have a "choice" in giving up the church. clearly you can see that. i wud further it is immoral for the rcc NOT to say bc is ok.

hungry homeless man- bribery of a basic need? is immorality in its essence. most homeless people are literally one meal away from poor health. do I miss the meal today and risk my health or take their sermon (tho i'm another religion or atheist), and eat. I wud think it will swear many off the faith for good.


yes you are not that bad; mostly i included that for the general readership and shud have so stipulated.

As to the begining of your post. the way we "ought to act," and the way even churches "have" acted are two different things. In politics we must deal in realities when legislating to right an injustice.
Well Religious people have done a lot of bad things in the name of God and religion. but on the grand scale a sermon for food is ... as i said... an EXTREMELY small price to pay. Again if i were hungry and an Athesit wanted to give me food but i had to listen to a An Atheist drone on for an hour about how there is no god. well you know what. OK. personally i don't see it as a horrible "bribe". If they ask me what i think of the "sermon" or ask be to "recant" my faith at the end I'd have to decline and ask if Dinners ready cause it sure smells good. And say thank you for the meal when i'm done. I really just don't get the big offense here. Can't adults listen to others POV without feeling attacked. Am i weird?

And yes we have to deal with realities when when legislating to right an injustice and it's NOT right for the gov't to force a religious people to violate their faith.

Since you're so outraged by someone simply being ASKED to sit and listen to a few words in return for a meal. It Seems that you'd have NO Problem understanding that forcing someone to help PAY to KILL babies, Or FORCING someone to participate in what they consider morally wrong would be even MORE offensive, unjust and Immoral.
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Old 12-10-2017, 10:55 PM
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Default Re: "Why I Left the Left"

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Well Religious people have done a lot of bad things in the name of God and religion. but on the grand scale a sermon for food is ... as i said... an EXTREMELY small price to pay. Again if i were hungry and an Athesit wanted to give me food but i had to listen to a An Atheist drone on for an hour about how there is no god. well you know what. OK. personally i don't see it as a horrible "bribe". If they ask me what i think of the "sermon" or ask be to "recant" my faith at the end I'd have to decline and ask if Dinners ready cause it sure smells good. And say thank you for the meal when i'm done. I really just don't get the big offense here. Can't adults listen to others POV without feeling attacked. Am i weird?

And yes we have to deal with realities when when legislating to right an injustice and it's NOT right for the gov't to force a religious people to violate their faith.

Since you're so outraged by someone simply being ASKED to sit and listen to a few words in return for a meal. It Seems that you'd have NO Problem understanding that forcing someone to help PAY to KILL babies, Or FORCING someone to participate in what they consider morally wrong would be even MORE offensive, unjust and Immoral.
first I don't believe a doctor's opinion -a real doctor that is- should ever have been interfered with by statesmen on religious grounds. abortion in any case was outlawed in texas before roe vs wade. or at least to the point doctors would not do even necessary ones for fear of losing their license.
yes it is more than just a "simple," thing to offer food, have it prepared or presented nearby and have to sit through indoctrination of someone's view of God while your guts rumble. I can think of nothing more unchristian like.

religious people don't have to violate their faith unless it steps on the law in which case they can do their faith in another fashion.
maybe restricting school employees and students to catholics only would help. but yeah nuns are sweet but don't get to dictate the civil law.
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:11 PM
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Default Re: "Why I Left the Left"

This Dave Rubin video of his conversion to common sense has been featured before but I'm glad you posted it again. The Rubin Report is one of the best discussion forums and a template for reasonable and profitable dialogue. His interesting guest list includes a wide range of folks and every now and then you get to witness people who change their views on things. Concerning free speech on campus, he's had extensive interviews with Eric Weinstein, Jordan Peterson, and Lindsay Shepherd from Laurier University.
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:42 PM
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Default Re: "Why I Left the Left"

Looks like their parting was amicable and Dave credits TYT with introducing him to the craft:



then it looks like somewhere along the line, he started building a career on criticizing his old employers for things they hadn't actually done:
In fact Ana here is being honest, Cenk disagrees with her and they are having a discussion.
Sweet way to reap the benefits of all someone else's hard work.

Plus there have been many wanna be youtube channel take downs; the latest being Same Seder fired from MSNBC (as a guest talker) because of a rival's insane shenanigans, then rehired when MSNBC saw the folly of their ways.
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:52 PM
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Default Re: "Why I Left the Left"

“”I'm a classical liberal, a free thinker. And as much as I don't like to admit it, defending my liberal values has suddenly become a conservative position.
—Dave Rubin, in a video collaboration with Prager

David Joshua "Dave" Rubin (born 1976) is a "classical liberal" and host of The Rubin Report on YouTube. Once a member of The Young Turks network, his content since leaving TYT has mostly been steered towards criticism of what he considers the 'regressive left'. On his show, he frequently/interminably discusses freedom of speech, feminism, political correctness and the Mainstream media.
Unsurprisingly, many of the guests Rubin has invited to his show are known to have ties to far-right movements such as the alt-right, neoreactionaries, Gamergate, and the men's rights movement. And when he does invite guests on the left, it is usually only to complain about "regressivism" (Classical liberalism, amirite?).
As of September 12, 2017, Rubin's YouTube channel has over 510,000 subscribers and over 120 million channel views. Rubin also makes over $27,000 per month on Patreon from over 4300 patrons, and has over 250,000 followers on Twitter.
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Old 12-11-2017, 12:12 AM
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Default Re: "Why I Left the Left"

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first I don't believe a doctor's opinion -a real doctor that is- should ever have been interfered with by statesmen on religious grounds. abortion in any case was outlawed in texas before roe vs wade. or at least to the point doctors would not do even necessary ones for fear of losing their license.
so why wasn't the law changed to do just "necessary" abortions Saltwn?
It was changed "bt statesmen to do nearly ANY abortion for UNnecesary reasons.

I'll vote TODAY to limit abortions to "necessary" ie the life of the mother abortions.
will you?

I suspect not. your argument is pretty much a hypocritical a straw man. you don't want "the state" to tell a doctor what to do but you have no problem with "the state" telling a Nun, a baker, a photographer and florist what to do.

I have to say you're talking out of both sides of your mouth here.




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yes it is more than just a "simple," thing to offer food, have it prepared or presented nearby and have to sit through indoctrination of someone's view of God while your guts rumble. I can think of nothing more unchristian like.
I can think of plenty. abortion for one. wife beating, stealing from blind man. I'm keeping it PG here. But seriously saltwn if sitting through a sermon is the most "unchristian" thing you can think of well OK we disagree.
but even Jesus preached 1st and THEN gave out food. But i guess that's different.

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religious people don't have to violate their faith unless it steps on the law in which case they can do their faith in another fashion.
maybe restricting school employees and students to catholics only would help. but yeah nuns are sweet but don't get to dictate the civil law.
and that's where the final conflict comes in. Do Christians obey God or civil law.

Slavery was "civil law", Jim Crow laws were "civil law", Japanese internment camps were "civil law", Killing native Americans if they gather in groups larger than 5 was "civil law". And with each law religious people had to decide if they were going to obey them or what they understood to be be God's laws.

Civil laws are not God, and they are not always right.
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