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Opinions & Editorials Discuss No, The End of “Net Neutrality” is Not The End of the World (Wide Web) at the General Forum; Originally Posted by jamesrage You do know that Comcast intentionally slowed traffic to Netflix? So it was before net neutrality. ...

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Old 11-28-2017, 07:35 AM
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Default Re: No, The End of “Net Neutrality” is Not The End of the World (Wide Web)

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Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
You do know that Comcast intentionally slowed traffic to Netflix? So it was before net neutrality.
And that is the point. If Comcast slowed traffic to Netflix, yes it probably hurt Netflix with those customers that accessed it through Comcast.

But in the end, how was Netflix really hurt? They were still able to push their product through the pipe. The ones that were hurt by this are the Netflix customers that connected via Comcast. To remedy this, there are other ISP's in the market for those customers that really wanted Netflix without the slow down. The customer ultimately has the final say. They are free to flee Comcast and sign up with Verizon or any other ISP.

That is a free market solution without having the heavy hand of government come in and lay down rules full of unintended consequences.
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Old 11-28-2017, 07:49 AM
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Default Re: No, The End of “Net Neutrality” is Not The End of the World (Wide Web)

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
You want to talk about competition between apples, oranges, tangerines and zucchini.

We need to talk about APPLES competition.



Every ISP charges less at the start.
And both suck on a consumer level for customer service.



Nobody is saying that on the scale of 15 years, there have been no improvements.

The real question here is competition.
And the truth is that in the ISP world, it isn't really there...
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...tiny-in-court/
https://arstechnica.com/information-...higher-speeds/
https://consumerist.com/2014/03/07/h...e-in-map-form/
I don't use Apple products. Another market choice I made.

I really don't have any idea what you want in the way of competition you want you don't have.
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Old 11-28-2017, 11:51 AM
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Post Re: No, The End of “Net Neutrality” is Not The End of the World (Wide Web)

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
And that is the point. If Comcast slowed traffic to Netflix, yes it probably hurt Netflix with those customers that accessed it through Comcast.
But in the end, how was Netflix really hurt?
You throttle the speed you damage the quality of the picture for the streaming service.
And thus, you damage the product that Netflix is delivering.

If customers have to choose between Netflix with a crappy picture (because it's being throttled) and Amazon Prime (which doesn't get throttled and is crystal clear, how do you think customers are going to lean?


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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
They were still able to push their product through the pipe. The ones that were hurt by this are the Netflix customers that connected via Comcast. To remedy this, there are other ISP's in the market for those customers that really wanted Netflix without the slow down. The customer ultimately has the final say. They are free to flee Comcast and sign up with Verizon or any other ISP.
Again, this ignores the fact that there are monopolies that result in a deterioration of services.
You mention Verizon. What if they also decide to throttle Netflix?

The choices for ISPs in most areas are ridiculously limited. As I've already demonstrated, customers hate Comcast but they use what they have no choice to use.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
That is a free market solution without having the heavy hand of government come in and lay down rules full of unintended consequences.
What unintended consequences?
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Old 11-28-2017, 04:33 PM
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Default Re: No, The End of “Net Neutrality” is Not The End of the World (Wide Web)

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
The choices for ISPs in most areas are ridiculously limited. As I've already demonstrated, customers hate Comcast but they use what they have no choice to use.
Where is Comcast the only option?
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Old 11-28-2017, 06:05 PM
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Default Re: No, The End of “Net Neutrality” is Not The End of the World (Wide Web)

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Originally Posted by Lumara View Post
I'm still on the fence about net neutrality and didn't understand the details behind the furor over it but Knapp explains the reasons below, that Big Telecom and Big Data are the ones behind it. Besides this interesting info, the thing that struck me the most was when he said net neutrality is only 2 years old, and before that there was no problem like the hysterical fearmongers have been claiming there will be once it is gone.
there were changes in the works that net neutrality stopped.
during the clinton era no one knew how the internet would grow. we didn't know what or if we needed laws about it.
like if when we first started using electricity, some electric companies may have wanted to charge more kwt/hr for a business than a home. we could see there may be a problem so electricity is regulated.

when in doubt I seek as many professional opinions as possible.

here are a few I found
also you can google your favorite streaming service or web hangout/ browser creator for their statement on net neutrality.



CNET is an American media website that publishes reviews, news, articles, blogs, podcasts and videos on technology and consumer electronics globally


https://www.cnet.com/news/net-neutra...rs-fight-back/
"Thousands of companies and organizations, including Google, Facebook and Reddit, want you to support the push for keeping the rules that govern the open internet".

Mozilla (creator of firefox) is a free-software community created in 1998 by members of Netscape. The Mozilla community uses, develops, spreads and supports Mozilla products, thereby promoting exclusively free software and open standards, with only minor exceptions.

https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/1...ty-in-the-u-s/
"Our position is clear: the end of net neutrality would only benefit Internet Service Providers (ISPs). That’s why we’ve led the charge on net neutrality for years to ensure everyone has access to the entire internet".




Netflix Issues Warning On The Dangers Of Ending Net Neutrality. Netflix issued a statement today lamenting a federal appeals court's decision to effectively end net neutrality rules.

"Without net neutrality, it means Internet providers can treat the content they deliver over the Web differently".



Net neutrality: Amazon among top internet firms planning day of action
https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...tarter-protest
Vimeo is a platform for video like youtube
Michael Cheah, general counsel of Vimeo, said: “Net neutrality made it possible for Vimeo, along with countless other startups, to innovate and thrive. The FCC’s proposed rollback of the 2015 open internet rules threatens to impede that innovation and allow a handful of incumbent ISPs to determine winners and losers.”
I hope that helps.

YouTube stars defend net neutrality in open letter to the FCC
https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/6/15...ity-letter-fcc
“Our rapidly growing industry employs hundreds of thousands of people and yet it barely existed more than a decade ago,” reads the letter from the Internet Creators Guild, which represents online video makers. “As creators in this fast-moving industry, changes to the existing Net Neutrality rules would have an outsized impact on our field and jeopardize our livelihood.”
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Old 11-28-2017, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: No, The End of “Net Neutrality” is Not The End of the World (Wide Web)

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
You throttle the speed you damage the quality of the picture for the streaming service.
And thus, you damage the product that Netflix is delivering.

If customers have to choose between Netflix with a crappy picture (because it's being throttled) and Amazon Prime (which doesn't get throttled and is crystal clear, how do you think customers are going to lean?
My guess is that they would seek out a different ISP. That would force the ISP's into competition. Competition is a good thing in the free market.


Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Again, this ignores the fact that there are monopolies that result in a deterioration of services.
You mention Verizon. What if they also decide to throttle Netflix?
Then that opens the door for another company or an individual to fill the void. Again, demand (the customers) will drive the service providers, not the other way around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
The choices for ISPs in most areas are ridiculously limited. As I've already demonstrated, customers hate Comcast but they use what they have no choice to use.
You don't have to tell me. I live in a rural area surrounded by corn fields. I cannot get Comcast, Time Warner or any of the other big name providers. However, we had a startup ISP that came into our area and offered their service. Within a year, another ISP came into the area and instead of slow crappy internet, my speeds more than tripled and the price dropped.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
What unintended consequences?
I have no idea, but usually when government gets involved and starts making rules to fix an issue (that they usually created in the first place), it comes back to bite the consumers in the rear. Think Community Reinvestment Act.
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Old 11-28-2017, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: No, The End of “Net Neutrality” is Not The End of the World (Wide Web)

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
My guess is that they would seek out a different ISP. That would force the ISP's into competition. Competition is a good thing in the free market.




Then that opens the door for another company or an individual to fill the void. Again, demand (the customers) will drive the service providers, not the other way around.



You don't have to tell me. I live in a rural area surrounded by corn fields. I cannot get Comcast, Time Warner or any of the other big name providers. However, we had a startup ISP that came into our area and offered their service. Within a year, another ISP came into the area and instead of slow crappy internet, my speeds more than tripled and the price dropped.


I have no idea, but usually when government gets involved and starts making rules to fix an issue (that they usually created in the first place), it comes back to bite the consumers in the rear. Think Community Reinvestment Act.
One of the consequences government is famous for is favoring one group over another. The very thing that supposedly net neutrality is supposed to prevent.
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Old 11-28-2017, 06:52 PM
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Default Re: No, The End of “Net Neutrality” is Not The End of the World (Wide Web)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
My guess is that they would seek out a different ISP. That would force the ISP's into competition. Competition is a good thing in the free market.




Then that opens the door for another company or an individual to fill the void. Again, demand (the customers) will drive the service providers, not the other way around.



You don't have to tell me. I live in a rural area surrounded by corn fields. I cannot get Comcast, Time Warner or any of the other big name providers. However, we had a startup ISP that came into our area and offered their service. Within a year, another ISP came into the area and instead of slow crappy internet, my speeds more than tripled and the price dropped.


I have no idea, but usually when government gets involved and starts making rules to fix an issue (that they usually created in the first place), it comes back to bite the consumers in the rear. Think Community Reinvestment Act.
but your youtube, netflix, streaming services may have to charge you more as they are hit with fees. see my first post.
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Old 11-28-2017, 06:53 PM
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Default Re: No, The End of “Net Neutrality” is Not The End of the World (Wide Web)

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Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
One of the consequences government is famous for is favoring one group over another. The very thing that supposedly net neutrality is supposed to prevent.
in this case it does just the opposite. see my reply to lumara a few posts back.
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Old 11-28-2017, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: No, The End of “Net Neutrality” is Not The End of the World (Wide Web)

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
but your youtube, netflix, streaming services may have to charge you more as they are hit with fees. see my first post.
Who would be hitting them with "fees"? However, if they do, then why shouldn't those that use the service have to pay for it? Why should those of us that don't use it pay for it?
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