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Opinions & Editorials Discuss The Left: Guns bad, killing babies OK at the General Forum; Originally Posted by FrancSevin A fetus already has recognized rights. A right to inheritance. A right to seek damages, if ...

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 11-16-2017, 05:19 PM
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Default Re: The Left: Guns bad, killing babies OK

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
A fetus already has recognized rights. A right to inheritance. A right to seek damages, if injured, from the responsible party. And a right to life.

If a pregnant woman is murdered , her "fetus" counts for two homicides.

Cause a spontaneous abortion with an auto accident and see what your rights are visa vie the "Fetus."

Born does not create life, it is only a part of it. "Born" is a natural process of an existing life form. A big deal yes. Yeah, it does kinda shout out to you.
no. would that it was that way. the problem w R v W. it's based on privacy. so far SC's are scared to revisit that subject.
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Old 11-16-2017, 06:16 PM
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Post Re: The Left: Guns bad, killing babies OK

One of the incredibly crappy parts of the article is the title talking about "The Left: Guns bad, killing babies OK"

The truth is the majority of people want a legalized form of abortion.
Only 16% say it should be illegal in all cases. It's even a minority position within the Republican party for abortion to be illegal in all cases.

Similarly regarding gun control. There is even majority support amongst Republicans for banning assault-style weapons and creating a federal database to track gun sales.
Where Republicans and Democrats agree, differ on gun policy | Pew Research Center
Strong Majority of Americans, NRA Members Back Gun Control

Pretending it is a contradiction on the left for comparing two completely separate topics is myopic. It ignores the fact that this knife cuts both ways.
If you want to say that guns bad / killing fetuses OK is hypocritical, then it's likewise hypocritical to hold the opposing view on both sides of guns good / killing fetuses bad.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
"It's a good article for open-minded people."

The first thing that an "open minded" person would notice is that it's laced with false statements and ill-conceived conclusions.

First and foremost "babies" exist after birth and not before birth.

Merriam-Webster:
Quote:
Definition of baby
plural babies
1
a (1) :an extremely young child; especially :infant (2) :an extremely young animal
b :the youngest of a group He is the baby of the family.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/baby

Abortions do not relate to "babies" and have never related to babies.
Exactly


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
A fetus already has recognized rights. A right to inheritance. A right to seek damages, if injured, from the responsible party. And a right to life.
I'll take things made up for $1,000 Alex!


If you care to document any of the above, please do so.
And note, you claim the fetus has those "recognized" rights.

If a man has his car keyed, the man can sue for damages. The owner has rights. The car has no such rights.
The fetus has no such rights.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
If a pregnant woman is murdered , her "fetus" counts for two homicides.
Cause a spontaneous abortion with an auto accident and see what your rights are visa vie the "Fetus."
The situations you describe are not the "fetus" having those rights.

The family / expectant woman would be the one involved having those rights.
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Last edited by foundit66; 11-16-2017 at 10:16 PM..
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Old 11-16-2017, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: The Left: Guns bad, killing babies OK

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Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
IMO attempting to equate abortion with gun issues is a loser for both.
I love "equating" them.

It is fun to point out that abortion rights only exist because the first eight Amendments of the Bill of Rights represent a continuum of liberty. The significance being, that if that chain is able to be broken, that one right can be singled out and cut out, then the theory by which the right to privacy and the derivative rights of abortion, contraception and LGBTQ rights were recognized and secured . . . Just can't be true.
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Old 11-16-2017, 08:39 PM
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Default Re: The Left: Guns bad, killing babies OK

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Originally Posted by Jeerleader View Post
I love "equating" them.

It is fun to point out that abortion rights only exist because the first eight Amendments of the Bill of Rights represent a continuum of liberty. The significance being, that if that chain is able to be broken, that one right can be singled out and cut out, then the theory by which the right to privacy and the derivative rights of abortion, contraception and LGBTQ rights were recognized and secured . . . Just can't be true.
guns on the other hand can and have been regulated
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Old 11-16-2017, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: The Left: Guns bad, killing babies OK

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Only an idiot would claim that an AR-15 is the modern equivalent to a musket. Get serious people.
Actually it is.

An AR-15 is the perfect civilian arm if the protection sphere for civilian "keep and bear" is linked to the perpetuation of the general militia principle.

It is the civilian version of the active military arm, the civilian gun is chambered for the government ammunition and that ammo meets all rules of war (most hunting ammo would not). Nearly all parts are interchangeable (especially magazines) and military armorers are experts on the civilian platform and vice versa.

A main problem with militia arms back in the times of muskets was uniformity of arms. Militia members were only mandated (by the Militia Act of 1792*) to bring 24 cartridges or 20 ball suitable for the bore of the gun they chose to use for militia duty. The militia company supplied any amount above that.

Any idiot can see that would create problems if men mustered with 5 different calibers each of rifles and muskets. The AR-15 / AR-10, chambered in either 5.56 or 7.62 solves that issue.

For the above reasons and more, as I've said many times, the AR platform meets the protection criteria of the 2nd Amendment better than any modern firearm.



*"That every citizen, so enrolled and notified, shall, within six months thereafter, provide himself with a good musket or firelock, a sufficient bayonet and belt, two spare flints, and a knapsack, a pouch, with a box therein, to contain not less than twenty four cartridges, suited to the bore of his musket or firelock, each cartridge to contain a proper quantity of powder and ball; or with a good rifle, knapsack, shot-pouch, and powder-horn, twenty balls suited to the bore of his rifle, and a quarter of a pound of powder; and shall appear so armed, accoutred and provided, when called out to exercise or into service . . . " -- Militia Act of 1792

.
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:10 PM
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Default Re: The Left: Guns bad, killing babies OK

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
guns on the other hand can and have been regulated
So a right that only exists in the penumbras and emanations of the rights secured in the Bill of Rights is more secure, more vital, more inviolate than a right that is expressly enumerated?

Your comment doesn't speak at all to my point but it brings up another line of inquiry . . . How many of those regulations have been challenged post Heller, you know, that demands the recognition of a pre-existing individual right?

Very few . . .

How many gun control laws have been sustained under the theory the right only protected a militia right or a state's right and now rest only on invalid legal reasoning?

Hundreds of federal and state laws . . .
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Old 11-16-2017, 09:49 PM
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Default Re: The Left: Guns bad, killing babies OK

Lollie posted a thread and said

Quote:
It's a good article for open-minded people.
So lets open our minds and look....

It is titled The Left: Guns bad, killing babies OK

So now I think guns are bad and killing babies is OK. I guess my mind doesn't open that far. But it goes on...


Quote:
"Another mass shooting, another round of hysterical nonsense from cowardly leftists wanting to deprive Americans of a fundamental and natural God-given right."
The left is cowardly? The same left that serves this country in times of war? And BTW God gave us the right to guns???? I guess my mind needs to open more.
Quote:
"The murder of 26 men, women and children by Devin P. Kelley on Nov. 5 was a tragedy. Unfortunately, in today’s America, leftists won’t even wait for the body count before launching into their tired refrain of “commonsense gun laws.”
It's a tired refrain because when god gave you these guns he didn't make a way to stop you from killing each other. Looks like Lollies Idea of a good read is an article that attacks the left in the worst way.
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Old 11-17-2017, 12:10 AM
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Default Re: The Left: Guns bad, killing babies OK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeerleader View Post
So a right that only exists in the penumbras and emanations of the rights secured in the Bill of Rights is more secure, more vital, more inviolate than a right that is expressly enumerated?
2nd amendment speaks for itself
as do the 5th and the 9th


Quote:
Your comment doesn't speak at all to my point but it brings up another line of inquiry . . . How many of those regulations have been challenged post Heller, you know, that demands the recognition of a pre-existing individual right?

Very few . . .
answered your own question; I have not researched it nor will I tonight.
Quote:
How many gun control laws have been sustained under the theory the right only protected a militia right or a state's right and now rest only on invalid legal reasoning?
the last one
Quote:
Hundreds of federal and state laws . . .
abortion should never have been outlawed but left to the doctor, then people wouldn't have had to further address the grievances of the law which imho was not settled on the appropriate case (privacy).
guns was just looked at a few years ago and it was left open that yes they can be regulated
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Old 11-17-2017, 07:11 AM
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Default Re: The Left: Guns bad, killing babies OK

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
2nd amendment speaks for itself
as do the 5th and the 9th
Yes it does, "The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." I don't know about you, but that seems pretty clear and basically states that those "reasonable regulations" would be unconstitutional as they infringe upon my right to gun ownership.

If you are referring to the first part of the Amendment stating "A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State", it has been demonstrated that this was not a condition of the exercise of the right, but more to the purpose of the right. And as has been explained, the Militia consists of Citizens of the nation.

Quote:
The Second Amendment preserves and guarantees an individual right for a collective purpose. That does not transform the right into a "collective right." The militia clause was a declaration of purpose, and preserving the people's right to keep and bear arms was the method the framers chose to, in-part, ensure the continuation of a well-regulated militia.
GunCite-Second Amendment-Original intent and purpose of the Second Amendment

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
abortion should never have been outlawed but left to the doctor, then people wouldn't have had to further address the grievances of the law which imho was not settled on the appropriate case (privacy).
The problem of abortion is that the rights of the baby are never considered. There are groups that want to extend the practice of abortion to a period AFTER the birth of the child. By your reasoning, that would also be considered Constitutional as long as it was done privately.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...=.c7903502d0c2

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
guns was just looked at a few years ago and it was left open that yes they can be regulated
That doesn't mean it was Constitutional and I hope most of those regulations are challenged in the Supreme Court that consists of textualists and originalists.
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Old 11-17-2017, 07:14 AM
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Default Re: The Left: Guns bad, killing babies OK

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Originally Posted by [QUOTE
GetAClue;918463]Yes it does, "The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." I don't know about you, but that seems pretty clear and basically states that those "reasonable regulations" would be unconstitutional as they infringe upon my right to gun ownership.
Why does the right always use only part of the 2nd amendment?
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