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Opinions & Editorials Discuss Bernie Sanders Makes Unions Sexy Again! at the General Forum; Originally Posted by AZRWinger Right, the workers the unions claim to represent are just children unable to distinguish propaganda from ...

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2017, 01:09 AM
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Default Re: Bernie Sanders Makes Unions Sexy Again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Right, the workers the unions claim to represent are just children unable to distinguish propaganda from the happy servitude of serving union boses.
that's what propaganda does. it's smart. it has years of advertising to draw on not to mention hitler's goebbels.
yes these people were brain washed and pressured to vote against their own interests.
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Old 09-11-2017, 10:02 AM
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Default Re: Bernie Sanders Makes Unions Sexy Again!

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
that's what propaganda does. it's smart. it has years of advertising to draw on not to mention hitler's goebbels.
yes these people were brain washed and pressured to vote against their own interests.
There you go, employers are like Hitler. That is patently absurd.

People not voting in their own interest is the addled rational for socialist dictators and union bosses alike to seize power. It is why union bosses fight like crazy to avoid recertification elections, workers don't know what is good for them so it is dangerous to let them vote.

In recent decades union membership growth has come from government employees. Please provide some examples of state and local governments anti union propaganda. Asking employees to contribute more towards their benefits like they do in the private sector is not propaganda.
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Old 09-11-2017, 01:29 PM
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Default Re: Bernie Sanders Makes Unions Sexy Again!

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
that's what propaganda does. it's smart. it has years of advertising to draw on not to mention hitler's goebbels.
yes these people were brain washed and pressured to vote against their own interests.
So, when people don't vote as you would prefer, it must be because they have been "brain washed" with mere "propaganda"?

Is that really what you are saying?
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Old 09-11-2017, 01:54 PM
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Default Re: Bernie Sanders Makes Unions Sexy Again!

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Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
Salty, which exactly are these strong associations that employers belong to?

Companies compete with each other. Bush Beans are on the shelf right next to Heinz Beans. I prefer Bush. I'll pay the extra few cents for the difference. Not so with closed shops, There is no competition. You make 4 widgets/hour, you make 12. You get your $23,45/hour. That's what unions do. That's strong association.

Fact is, Salty, if companies got together and decided that all beans would cost $1.29 a can, that would be a monopoly and illegal.
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no ot dwindled when presidents interfered in private company and private worker negotiations.
people have been propagandized since the 80s about this.
before that and before labor laws workers heads were beaten in by company goons and no one was charged for it.
read some history and truly know your worth.
if your company has no union fine. if you work for one with a union fine by me.
what you will see in wally world is people having no seniority and doing the job of three people then getting replaced by newcomers for less wages. screwed out of retirement and shiddy benefits
you wanna pee out your eyes for a multi billion dollar corporation that treats workers the way their government lets them fine
chinese workers are locked in and America is the only non union Nissan plant.
why? cause mississippians were propagandized just like you.
we used to share in a good economy. no more
A little short on the actual facts here Salty.
Non union plants are in many states of our nation and pay the same as union plants. Better work conditions, ( including merit pay raises and promotions) because they need to compete for good workers to stay competitive.

The fact is if companies banded together like unions they would be indicted for creating a monopoly. It is why Unions are exempt from RICO.
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Old 09-11-2017, 04:48 PM
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Default Re: Bernie Sanders Makes Unions Sexy Again!

Gap between union and non-union pay is $200 a week - Capitol Report - MarketWatch

Every single union job I have ever had pays significantly better than the nonunion equivalent.
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: Bernie Sanders Makes Unions Sexy Again!

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Gap between union and non-union pay is $200 a week - Capitol Report - MarketWatch

Every single union job I have ever had pays significantly better than the nonunion equivalent.
Is that why union companies are shrinking as a percentage of the manufacturing sector while gaining in the government sector?
Union Vs. Nonunion Wages | eHow

There is more to the equation than wages and benefits.

As the BIG THREE US auto makers have proven, having a union card doesn't insure a prosperous future for the union employee. The only thing that saved GM was an intervention by President Obama in their bankruptcy. Much the same with Chrysler who curiously, is now owned in part by the unions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler

Ford made it on their own but only after shedding Lincoln Mercury, Jaguar, and Volvo.


Promising higher wages to the employees meant gutting value from the product. A recipe for suicide. Something Chrysler proved in the final years under non auto industry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerber...tal_Management bean counters.
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: Bernie Sanders Makes Unions Sexy Again!

Wages directly effect profit. They just do. Profit is up year after year and wages are stagnant or get lower.
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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Is that why union companies are shrinking as a percentage of the manufacturing sector while gaining in the government sector?
Union Vs. Nonunion Wages | eHow

There is more to the equation than wages and benefits.

As the BIG THREE US auto makers have proven, having a union card doesn't insure a prosperous future for the union employee. The only thing that saved GM was an intervention by President Obama in their bankruptcy. Much the same with Chrysler who curiously, is now owned in part by the unions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler

Ford made it on their own but only after shedding Lincoln Mercury, Jaguar, and Volvo.


Promising higher wages to the employees meant gutting value from the product. A recipe for suicide. Something Chrysler proved in the final years under non auto industry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerber...tal_Management bean counters.
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:47 PM
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Default Re: Bernie Sanders Makes Unions Sexy Again!

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Wages directly effect profit. They just do. Profit is up year after year and wages are stagnant or get lower.
Your calculations are too linear. Wages effect profit if price pressure holds sale prices down. Unless value is increase, a manufacturer's product cannot be sold for more than a competitor's product. At one time, union labor effected quality and value of the product.

What happened to that part of the equation?

Again I refer to Chrysler Corp. who, under the leadership of Lee Iacocca, partnered with the unions to save Chrysler, not by the simple influx of cash but by common effort to achieve common shared success. Chrysler went from also also ran and bankrupt to a quality leader producing American products people wanted to buy. And not just because of the union label.

Because of innovative products produced with pride and workmanship.

Look what happened when he left.

The management went back to counting beans and the union went back to wages, benefit, and daily pink slips from the shop stewards. If it were simply a matter of wages to create profit would not that plan have succeeded?

BTW, none of this s "sexy." And more of the Union bullsh!t with Bernie leading the charge will change that.
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Old 09-14-2017, 02:19 PM
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Default Re: Bernie Sanders Makes Unions Sexy Again!

Unions were instrumental in obtaining rights for the worker in the late 1800's and early 1900's. They were needed as large companies yielded too much power of the worker, demanding very long work days for little pay and dangerous working conditions.

Unions gave the worker some bargaining power to affect change in labor laws that workers benefit from to this day.

However, they no longer serve that purpose. Those laws are written and established. The only thing that unions do now is protect the lazy and inflate the work force. Their only incentive is to keep as many people on the payroll as possible to increase or maintain their income from dues. They put up barriers in the work place to allow business from securing those workers that contribute to the success of the business and to allow them to let go of the ones that are doing nothing but collecting a paycheck.
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Old 09-18-2017, 01:47 PM
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Default Re: Bernie Sanders Makes Unions Sexy Again!

In the building trades the difference between union and non-union is stark and wide . . . Literally life and death. The safety training and general work conditions for union workers is much better and it ain't OSHA or any state regulations that enforce it. It is the power of collective bargaining and the union contract. The employers evade and delay mandates whenever they can.

As far as wages go, in my career I traveled a lot and often worked in right-to-work states and on predominately non-union jobs nearer to home and you get what you pay for, just like anything else.

I joined in 1979 starting at half the Journeyman rate (then $11.96 in the check) committed to a 4 year apprenticeship.

I retired in December of 2016 at age 55 finishing my career as a general foreman making contract wages of $44.80 an hour in the check plus $29.36 an hour benefits un-taxed ($7.20 hr into a tax deferred 503c annuity).

I never once felt I was "settling" for what the union says I should make. I admit occasionally feeling like a new contract was more than the market could bear -- pricing ourselves out of work -- but outside of deep recessions work was steady. Not once have I regretted the choice to join the union at 18 years old.
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