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Opinions & Editorials Discuss The illegality of trumpís afghanistan war at the General Forum; Originally Posted by Lumara War Powers. Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the U.S. Constitution grants Congress the power ...

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Old 08-25-2017, 10:47 PM
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Default Re: The illegality of trumpís afghanistan war

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Originally Posted by Lumara View Post
War Powers. Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the U.S. Constitution grants Congress the power to declare war. The President, meanwhile, derives the power to direct the military after a Congressional declaration of war from Article II, Section 2, which names the President Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces.

It is clear that the president does not legally have the power to direct the military to invade other countries without a declaration of war from Congress. Just because this part of the Constitution has been ignored for years, doesn't suddenly make it legal for any president to unilaterally send the military to bomb other countries.
It is always a pleasure to have an honest conversation with you Lumara. But again, I respectfully disagree.
You are right about the war powers act. The President cannot simply declare a war. I maintain that only by assumption can someone claim that President Trump has done that.

He has no more declared a war on Afghanistan than did his predecessor, BH Obama, who directed and authorized the military actions in Afghanistan for 8 years. All from the Oval Office. America hardly noticed because hardly anything was done. Perhaps because President Obama had the men and women so hamstrung, they couldn't do anything.

President Trump has reversed that. Hardly a declaration of war but one of purpose.

I think one could legitimately argue the merits of that decision. But not the legal validity of the President's decision to move forward with a military mission to defeat our enemies in that country.

After all, the Government of Afghanistan haven't objected ,,,; yet.
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Old 08-25-2017, 11:09 PM
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Default Re: The illegality of trumpís afghanistan war

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Originally Posted by Lumara View Post
War Powers. Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the U.S. Constitution grants Congress the power to declare war. The President, meanwhile, derives the power to direct the military after a Congressional declaration of war from Article II, Section 2, which names the President Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces.

It is clear that the president does not legally have the power to direct the military to invade other countries without a declaration of war from Congress. Just because this part of the Constitution has been ignored for years, doesn't suddenly make it legal for any president to unilaterally send the military to bomb other countries.
Congress DID give permission for the US to conduct a military attack and so forth...And "yes", the power for the president to make the call...

Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists

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The Authorization for Use of Military Force (AUMF), Pub. L. 107-40, codified at 115 Stat. 224 and passed as S.J.Res. 23 by the United States Congress on September 14, 2001, authorizes the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the attacks on September 11, 2001 and any "associated forces". The authorization granted the President the authority to use all "necessary and appropriate force" against those whom he determined "planned, authorized, committed or aided" the September 11th attacks, or who harbored said persons or groups.

The AUMF was signed by President George W. Bush on September 18, 2001. As of December 2016, the Office of the President published a brief interpreting the AUMF as providing Congressional authorization for the use of force against al-Qaeda and other Islamic militant groups.


Joint Resolution

To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States.
  • Whereas, on September 11, 2001, acts of treacherous violence were committed against the United States and its citizens; and
  • Whereas, such acts render it both necessary and appropriate that the United States exercise its rights to self-defense and to protect United States citizens both at home and abroad; and
  • Whereas, in light of the threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States posed by these grave acts of violence; and
  • Whereas, such acts continue to pose an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security and foreign policy of the United States; and
  • Whereas, the President has authority under the Constitution to take action to deter and prevent acts of international terrorism against the United States: Now, therefore, be it
  • Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled

Section 1 – Short Title

This joint resolution may be cited as the 'Authorization for Use of Military Force'.

Section 2 – Authorization For Use of United States Armed Forces

(a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.
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Old 08-25-2017, 11:15 PM
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Default Re: The illegality of trumpís afghanistan war

You guys are bullshltting yourselves. The 9-11 terrorists were from a country we support with money and arms. Saudi Arabia. Why? Because oil. We choose Afghanistan when there are bigger threats that we do zero about. Pakistan for example. Those who support our staying in Afghanistan are trump supporters. It's not based on anything else. If trump said we were pulling out they would say "great idea"
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Old 08-25-2017, 11:26 PM
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Default Re: The illegality of trumpís afghanistan war

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You guys are bullshltting yourselves. The 9-11 terrorists were from a country we support with money and arms. Saudi Arabia. Why? Because oil.
False...

Osama bin Laden had hundreds of terrorist from a couple of dozen countries...He had every option to use 20 Pakistanis, 20 Egyptians, 20 Malaysians, or 20 of any other nationality of terrorists under his control...He intentionally used Saudis so useful idiots will attack Saudi Arabia, which he considered traitors when they asked the US to go on their soil and defend their lands after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait...

This is archived from 2002...

Why bin Laden plot relied on Saudi hijackers

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Along this narrow and treacherous highway, US and Saudi officials say, bin Laden and Al Qaeda saw a way to drive a wedge through the fragile US-Saudi relationship - and steer home the point that the Sept. 11 strikes were as much an attack on the House of Saud and its alliance with the United States as they were an attack on America itself.

Twelve of the 15 Saudis among the 19 hijackers who carried out the terrorist strikes came from the leading tribes in the provinces that straddle this highway.

Senior US officials and Saudi Interior Ministry officials involved with the investigation into the involvement of Saudi nationals in the attacks say they now believe bin Laden's Al Qaeda actively sought out young Saudi volunteers from this region for their ''jihad.''

...Dr. Said Al Harthi, a senior adviser to Saudi Interior Minister Prince Naifbin Abdul Aziz Al-Saud, said, ''We believe that bin Laden may well have tried to put a Saudi face on this attack, knowing that it would damage our relations with the United States ... We believe this was his intent.''

Harthi said the use of the Saudis and the selection of the hijackers from leading tribes in the southwest revealed what he called ''a fingerprint that is bin Laden's'' in the Sept. 11 attacks.

Specialists on bin Laden such as Milton Bearden, who headed the CIA's covert operations in Afghanistan during the 1980s when bin Laden was leading Arab volunteers to fight ''jihad'' there, noted that bin Laden's original and still preeminent goal is to rid the US military presence from Saudi Arabia.

Bin Laden refuses to recognize the House of Saud, asserting that the monarchy and the religious establishment which supports it, have both lost their legitimacy by permitting 5,000 US troops - ''infidels'' as he calls them - to occupy the land of the sacred Islamic holy sites, Mecca and Medina. Bin Laden's goal in making the terrorist attacks a mission carried out almost exclusively by Saudis, US and Saudi officials say, was to focus attention on the relationship between the two countries and force Washington and Riyadh to reconsider the US troop presence here.
Bin Laden's goal worked to some extent...

He hated the Saudi government, so he used mostly Saudis so people like you can whine about it...
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Old 08-25-2017, 11:45 PM
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Default Re: The illegality of trumpís afghanistan war

The hateful ideology is from the Saudi soil. It's supported by the Saudi family. Afghanistan as a country had little to do with it and we cannot sort out Afghanistan.
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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
False...

Osama bin Laden had hundreds of terrorist from a couple of dozen countries...He had every option to use 20 Pakistanis, 20 Egyptians, 20 Malaysians, or 20 of any other nationality of terrorists under his control...He intentionally used Saudis so useful idiots will attack Saudi Arabia, which he considered traitors when they asked the US to go on their soil and defend their lands after Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait...

This is archived from 2002...

Why bin Laden plot relied on Saudi hijackers

Bin Laden's goal worked to some extent...

He hated the Saudi government, so he used mostly Saudis so people like you can whine about it...
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Old 08-26-2017, 01:09 AM
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Default Re: The illegality of trumpís afghanistan war

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
The hateful ideology is from the Saudi soil. It's supported by the Saudi family. Afghanistan as a country had little to do with it and we cannot sort out Afghanistan.
False....At the time, the Taliban WAS the Afghan government...

Sheesh...simple googles and research and you refuse to do any...
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Old 08-26-2017, 07:37 AM
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Default Re: The illegality of trumpís afghanistan war

the whole damn GDP of Afghanistan couldn't have financed a terrorist cell, we all know the money comes from somewhere else (Saudi Arabia). We are in Afghanistan to burn bombs and make arms dealers even richer.
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The hateful ideology is from the Saudi soil. It's supported by the Saudi family. Afghanistan as a country had little to do with it and we cannot sort out Afghanistan.
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Geez surly, are you that blind or just that dumb.
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Old 08-26-2017, 11:31 AM
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Default Re: The illegality of trumpís afghanistan war

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
Those who support our staying in Afghanistan are trump supporters. It's not based on anything else. If trump said we were pulling out they would say "great idea"
False. I'm a Trump supporter who does NOT support our staying in Afghanistan as I've made perfectly clear on this forum, but yes, if he said we were pulling out I'd be happy..
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Old 08-26-2017, 11:33 AM
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Default Re: The illegality of trumpís afghanistan war

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Originally Posted by Lumara View Post
False. I'm a Trump supporter who does NOT support our staying in Afghanistan as I've made perfectly clear on this forum, but yes, if he said we were pulling out I'd be happy..
Some people can't get their heads around the fact that some of us don't buy the whole ball of wax of all things Trump.
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Old 08-26-2017, 12:12 PM
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Default Re: The illegality of trumpís afghanistan war

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Some people can't get their heads around the fact that some of us don't buy the whole ball of wax of all things Trump.
I don't know what about Trump anyone could support. He is a lying POS who will change his mind on a whim and claim he didn't. He doesn't have anyones back. He is untrustworthy and did I mention he is the biggest liar I have ever seen in my life?
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