Let’s remove all the legal arguments from this debate. For just a moment, forget the first amendment entirely. Instead, I want to talk with you about you, your church, and the community you represent.

Your stance on LGBTQ issues is ripping the Church apart. Christians are arguing in public forums, condemning one another to Hell, simply for supporting equality. They are taking it upon themselves to judge one another over well-reasoned theological differences. Overall church attendance is in significant decline, especially among Generation X and Millennials, and right now it looks as if the Methodist Church may split.

I don’t think this necessarily requires any “compromise” on your sincerely held beliefs at all. You just need to make a dramatic change in the way you express it. Why do you not handle this in the same manner you deal with divorce and other intensely personal situations? I see so many people who are being alienated, and it saddens me. You are separating families, forcing parents to choose between the Church and their children, between Grace and love.

The church has become a parody of itself, rife with hypocrisy and judgments. The message of Jesus’ love is drowned out by boycotts and screams, chants and threats.

I wish some very open minded folks could go read what I do and see how all of this translates to the greater community. Go see what is being said by atheists, agnostics, and just non-church going people. I wonder what kind of effect it would have on you. If your hearts have not hardened with self-righteousness, I think they would shatter.

You Christians are supposed spread God’s love by showing it and teaching it and living it, not by legislating it and bullying it and beating it into people. That is why you are getting so much push-back. That is not persecution. That is rejection.

In my mind, the question is very simple. Does the Church want to tell the world, “Jesus loves you, and so do we”? Or does it want to tell the world, “Jesus loves us no matter what, but Jesus hates you, because we deem it so”? The latter is the current message the world is getting: We pick and choose the laws we apply to ourselves, which are not the same as those we apply to the world. And I have news for you. It is not winning souls. It is pushing people further away. That causes them to push back even harder.

I wonder what would have happened if there had been no need to fight on equality? Would we need a special class to protect LGBTQ (in the few places we do?) Or for persons of color? Or for women? Those protections exist precisely because someone fought so hard against them. The Church is creating its own prophecy of persecution.

Society was first to recognize the equality of women, of persons of color, and now of LGBTQ. The Church has always been last. Must we keep dragging you kicking and screaming?

Matthew 22:36-40 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

An Open Letter to Christians: Your Behavior Is Completely Unlike Christ

At the most, that was mediocre of the author not to chide the Islamic belief for its wanton death sentences it hands down to homosexuals and other assorted people.

Anti-Christians favorite pastime is judging Christians...

"I don't believe in Jesus"

"I don't believe in Jesus"

"I don't believe in Jesus"

"I don't believe in Jesus"

"Here's how I, a person who doesn't believe in Jesus, will teach YOU how to be like Jesus."

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"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd

From time to time, we receive complaints of threads going off topic.

So here is the official position of the staff.

Sometimes, threads go off-topic...It happens.

There are multiple reasons for this...They include...

1) A member intentionally takes the thread off-topic because they simply don't want the subject matter discussed.

2) A member finds a side-issue very important and discusses it intently

3) A member makes a comparison of the topic with a previous event, and then that event starts getting discussed.

4) A member only reads the last couple of posts and responds to them instead of what the original topic was about, increasing the distance from the OP.

Reason number one is unacceptable. It has been moderated in the past and we will continue to do so.

All other examples (and ones not mentioned) are NOT MODERABLE.

It is NOT our job to keep topics on-track, nor would we want that job. Topics can ebb and floe, and when they do naturally, there is no reason for staff to get involved from a moderation standpoint.

I understand that when a thread is started, the member who started it feels it important to keep that track straight, and may even feel personally offended when "their" thread gets sidetracked, but it is incumbant upon that member (or others) to swing the discussion back to the original reasoning. It is NOT the staff's job.

Well, yeah.

It is sad when some non-believers know Christ better than some Christians.

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"I've known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." - Donald Trump, on pedophile Jeff Epstein.

Considering that the article is about Christianity today, and the behavior of an unfortunate some who profess their faith on their sleeve but act like dicks, not really sure what this has to do with anything.

Do try to stay on topic, especially since you were the first to reply.

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"I've known Jeff for 15 years. Terrific guy. He's a lot of fun to be with. It is even said that he likes beautiful women as much as I do, and many of them are on the younger side." - Donald Trump, on pedophile Jeff Epstein.

Give me a break! As was stated, non-Christians are always wanting to tell Christians how to act, and at the same time, they are suddenly professional scholars on the matters of Islam, and it would not surprise me if the other beliefs and philosophies are pieces of cake for them also.

Also, the originator of this thread is assuming that non-Christians will keep out of this, with the wording of the topic.

As such, I believe this piece of garbage has been posted in the wrong place then. Post this in its rightful place, and trust me, I will ignore it like I would any of Obama's promises.

I the cynic once again have two rules:

1) Follow the money.
2) Consider the source

The source is some Website called "Modern Liberal."

I will give "Modern Liberal all the consideration it deserves.
Which in my opinion is NONE.

Jesus, told the people about to Physically KILL the woman caught in adultery to check their own sins 1st.
But he Also told the woman caught in adultery "to go AND SIN NO MORE".


BOTH are what Jesus did. If those not in the church ... or in the church.
have a problem understand that both messages come from God's love then that's not the Church's issue.
speaking the truth ..IN LOVE. should be maintained though.
but i've been call bigot and hateful for just quoting scripture.
.
I've tried HARD not to be "mean". but the biblical position in and of itself is considered "hateful". At that point there's no way to be Loving in the eyes of society if what you believe at it's base is in their eyes "wrong".
..............


"Society was first to recognize the equality of women, of persons of color, and now of LGBTQ. The Church has always been last. Must we keep dragging you kicking and screaming?"

UH No "Society" was not 1st to recognize "equality of women, or of people of color." In the west both ideas were born out of the scriptural idea that ALL are created in the image of God.
the woman's movements in the US were lead by Christian woman Some Devout Daughters of quakers. the abolitionist movement was lead by Devout Christians. And promoted it on moral and biblical grounds, to the chacign of the "practical" society.. In England the main leader in parliament is quoted as saying God gave him the work of abolition as his lifes purpose. the Ideals and conceptual clarity they used to move forward were derived from there understanding of scripture. the Greater society ...including factions of the SOME churches... were mired in "scientific" and cultural views of woman and those of "lesser" races.

"Society" again today is trying to adopt views outside of the Bible and pretend they are true. .

we were told that marriage and divorce didn't really matter in the 60s and 70s but now we see PRACTICALLY that it matters. economically and harms children emotionally and educationally. It makes woman poorer. it makes children poorer. and perpetuates a negative cycle. And Now several studies are even showing that many people wish they had waited... some even for marriage... before they had their 1st sexual activity. People are regretting all the porn and trying to stop but finding it difficult to break the addiction. FREE love aint free, never has been. Despite these kind of facts "Society" has decided to go with it anyway as best it can. Continuing to dismiss Christian morals. NOW the LBGTQYZ come along after the "Free Love" , "marriage is Just a Piece a Paper" crowd and demand that marriage is EVERYTHING and everyone MUST legally comply with their view... or else. Compounding societies confusion. Today claiming NO HARM will come. Well, it may take 20 years for the admissions of harm to society to be more accepted but i suspect it will be evident before that.

Many "trans"-sexual people who've gone though the operations have already expressed Deep regrets and wish they had not done it . the rates of suicide among that group are far higher than should be expected since the sex change was suppose to make them "happy". One of the Dr's that Pioneered the "sex change " surgery is now against it because he says that from his experience it does no good. Is it "loving" to pretend otherwise?

...................................

Anyway If people want to judge Christianity based on the worse of those that call themselves christains, from the most heated of exchanges. then sure they'll get the wrong idea of who Jesus is.

But if they expect Jesus to approve of everything they do and every law they want past, then they'll be disappointed and upset as well.

Jesus loves everyone but he does not approve of everyones actions.
And telling people BOTH is what Christians are called to do.

Jesus, Matthew 28
... Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Jesus John15
17 These things I command you, so that you will love one another.

18 “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours...

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Hope is the dream of the waking man.
Aristotle

For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
Job 14:6-8

You now have a theology? It's great that you read the Bible. So do I so do many others. Who is right? It's not up to me to judge.