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Opinions & Editorials Discuss 7 W&L students demand removal of Confederate flags, decry view of Lee's legacy at the General Forum; Originally Posted by foundit66 Predictable from OC that he wants others to be silent rather than both sides to be ...

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Old 04-30-2014, 12:48 PM
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Default Re: 7 W&L students demand removal of Confederate flags, decry view of Lee's legacy

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Predictable from OC that he wants others to be silent rather than both sides to be heard...


Are you referring to the Tea Party?
All those guys do is whine.
So. It sounds as if the grievance hustler and fake reverend Al Sharpton has your support? Yes?
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Old 04-30-2014, 03:35 PM
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Post Re: 7 W&L students demand removal of Confederate flags, decry view of Lee's legacy

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Originally Posted by Harvey View Post
So. It sounds as if the grievance hustler and fake reverend Al Sharpton has your support? Yes?
Ahhh yes. The predictable refusal from Harvey to answer questions while he replies with questions he demands be answered.

If you read what I actually say, you should know the answer to your question is "No". He does not have my support.
And regardless of what you claim it "sounds" like, I have said nothing to indicate otherwise.
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Old 04-30-2014, 03:56 PM
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Default Re: 7 W&L students demand removal of Confederate flags, decry view of Lee's legacy

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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
I understand. A long time ago I was similarly deceived by the lies and myth.

...
a civil war is when factions dont agree and one wants to cut the other one out or one wants to change things or break away. enough to take up arms against one another. Doesnt matter what the reason is. argue about the reason all day long. it is what it is.
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:04 AM
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Default Re: 7 W&L students demand removal of Confederate flags, decry view of Lee's legacy

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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
If the Confederate States were merely in revolt, and had not seceded, then why did they need to petition for readmittance to the Union?

And please, stop stating the secession is illegal, that really is nonsense, in light of the founding principle of the Union that no law nor government short of the Bar of Heaven can hold a people that decides to dissolve them. That is, the law belongs to the people, not the people to the law. How could it possibly be otherwise one also wishes to assert that there can be such a thing as a free nation.

What justification, in light of the founding document of the Union can you assert to deny the right of a State to secede? I'm really curious to here raqtionale that doesn't rely upon the rule of a government that the Declaration assures us that the people may exit, alter or dissolve at will.

So. You tell us that the Southern States never seceded. But Congress certainly said that they did. So they invalidated their own justification for aggressive war. the Lincoln Myth........

I know that it's painful to examine these facts. It casts our country in a less noble light. Think about what you're clinging to. The myth of a war of naked aggression, committed against an independent Confederacy -- independent by the admission of Congress. I'm sorry that this upsets you so, but it is true nonetheless.
Abraham Lincoln decided that the southern states of the Federal Union were in revolt by trying to break up the Federal Union, which he swore an oath to defend, and none of the "confederate" states actually became "states" until such time as they actually joined that Federal Union, therefore, they had no right to attempt to destroy it. For a normally intelligent poster in here, your logic is so flawed as really not worthy of responding to, only worthy of a philosophical discussion, but suggest you stick to American history, there is no "Lincoln myth" and it doesn't upset me a bit that you are so misinformed as to continually post up your dribble about this.....STFAN
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Old 05-02-2014, 07:35 AM
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Default Re: 7 W&L students demand removal of Confederate flags, decry view of Lee's legacy

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
a civil war is when factions dont agree and one wants to cut the other one out or one wants to change things or break away. enough to take up arms against one another. Doesnt matter what the reason is. argue about the reason all day long. it is what it is.
Your definition is spot on, salty. Moreover, it describes exactly the condition of the nation under the Great Unifier, Barack Hussein Obama.
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:11 AM
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Default Re: 7 W&L students demand removal of Confederate flags, decry view of Lee's legacy

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Originally Posted by STFAN View Post
Abraham Lincoln decided that the southern states of the Federal Union were in revolt by trying to break up the Federal Union, which he swore an oath to defend, and none of the "confederate" states actually became "states" until such time as they actually joined that Federal Union, therefore, they had no right to attempt to destroy it. For a normally intelligent poster in here, your logic is so flawed as really not worthy of responding to, only worthy of a philosophical discussion, but suggest you stick to American history, there is no "Lincoln myth" and it doesn't upset me a bit that you are so misinformed as to continually post up your dribble about this.....STFAN
History is written by the victors, and eventually gullible people buy into it without a second thought. Had Hitler won WWII no one would have heard about the holocaust, but it still would have occurred. There would have been people writing papers, and books about the horrors, but people like you would dismiss them as being not worthy of a response.

I'm the sure the Founding Fathers would have applauded the south for following their lead in seceding from an oppressive, tyrannical government.
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Old 05-02-2014, 02:27 PM
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Default Re: 7 W&L students demand removal of Confederate flags, decry view of Lee's legacy

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Originally Posted by STFAN View Post
Abraham Lincoln decided that the southern states of the Federal Union were in revolt by trying to break up the Federal Union, which he swore an oath to defend, and none of the "confederate" states actually became "states" until such time as they actually joined that Federal Union, therefore, they had no right to attempt to destroy it. For a normally intelligent poster in here, your logic is so flawed as really not worthy of responding to, only worthy of a philosophical discussion, but suggest you stick to American history, there is no "Lincoln myth" and it doesn't upset me a bit that you are so misinformed as to continually post up your dribble about this.....STFAN
Well I find the whole logic of Lincoln to be flawed when held up against the Declaration of Independence. That Union was founded on the idea that people should determine their own governance and they took up arms to do so, all in response to colonial and economic subjugation. Along comes Lincoln who was part of a building legacy of Northern industry subjugating Southern agriculture, using abominable tariffs to protect and expand the Northern economy and infrastructure at the expense of grinding down the South by limiting their export options. Wait, no, limit is kind: it was more like they made it cost prohibitive to trade with anyone but the North, driving down the price of their raw materials and then selling the products made from those materials back at exhorbitant costs to the South.

Remind anyone of a certain island country doing that to their colonies? So why is it that a country founded on the peoples' right to throw off the chains of subjugation would take such great offense at a group of states deciding that their participation in an unequal Union should come to a peaceful end? Oh some will say it was to end slavery but history and Lincoln's own letters show that was an afterthought to the greedy tyrant. In fact, his most emphatic response to the secession of South Carolina was short, direct and said it all about his motivations: "But what will become of my tariff?"

The war was about Northern Aggression. The aggression of the North had been evident for 60 or more years and the peaceful, agrarian cultures of the Southern states took it far longer than they should have. Remember, the North marched on the South, not the other way around. And it was all over money.
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Old 05-03-2014, 05:33 AM
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Default Re: 7 W&L students demand removal of Confederate flags, decry view of Lee's legacy

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Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
History is written by the victors, and eventually gullible people buy into it without a second thought. Had Hitler won WWII no one would have heard about the holocaust, but it still would have occurred. There would have been people writing papers, and books about the horrors, but people like you would dismiss them as being not worthy of a response.

I'm the sure the Founding Fathers would have applauded the south for following their lead in seceding from an oppressive, tyrannical government.
Republicans are always bragging about being the party that ended slavery. That was the old school republicans. After reading posts from modern republicans, it seems that they are upset about the civil war. The "unjust" civil war also took plantation owners legally owned property from them. That property being the slaves. This in itself was unconstitutional. Without that war, America would be a happier place, the one percenter could still have their slaves, and the blacks would be better off also. They wouldn't be slaves to the democratic party voting machine.
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Old 05-03-2014, 09:20 AM
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Default Re: 7 W&L students demand removal of Confederate flags, decry view of Lee's legacy

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Originally Posted by Idealogically Promiscuous View Post
Well I find the whole logic of Lincoln to be flawed when held up against the Declaration of Independence. That Union was founded on the idea that people should determine their own governance and they took up arms to do so, all in response to colonial and economic subjugation. Along comes Lincoln who was part of a building legacy of Northern industry subjugating Southern agriculture, using abominable tariffs to protect and expand the Northern economy and infrastructure at the expense of grinding down the South by limiting their export options. Wait, no, limit is kind: it was more like they made it cost prohibitive to trade with anyone but the North, driving down the price of their raw materials and then selling the products made from those materials back at exhorbitant costs to the South.

Remind anyone of a certain island country doing that to their colonies? So why is it that a country founded on the peoples' right to throw off the chains of subjugation would take such great offense at a group of states deciding that their participation in an unequal Union should come to a peaceful end? Oh some will say it was to end slavery but history and Lincoln's own letters show that was an afterthought to the greedy tyrant. In fact, his most emphatic response to the secession of South Carolina was short, direct and said it all about his motivations: "But what will become of my tariff?"

The war was about Northern Aggression. The aggression of the North had been evident for 60 or more years and the peaceful, agrarian cultures of the Southern states took it far longer than they should have. Remember, the North marched on the South, not the other way around. And it was all over money.
Mr. Lincoln, who did not advocate ending slavery anytime during his campaign for the Presidency in 1860, inherited half a nation upon his election, because the misguided southern rebels decided to throw America into revolt and attempt to destroy it. Cost us 660,000 lives. What you are describing, the south equally could have done to the north had it so decided, without firearms and bloodshed, however, their economy was archaic and depending upon human bondage - slavery - to succeed, there was never any modern political thinking from southern politicians up to, including and after the American Civil War (get it right for goodness sake).

Also what you are describing, is known as capitalism, the founding economic engine of the United States of America. Had the south had anybody intelligent enough to modernize it, without slavery, a system that had to be destroyed for this country to survive, they would have been equally as economically independent and competitive with the north.

Why you insist that America, our America, not that of Jefferson Davis, John Calhoun and his ilk, was and should have had a right to go their own way, when, in fact, their way would have led to the total destruction of this country, wiping the USA off of the American continent and inviting European powers to take over, is stunning and obtuse. America would not have survived secession in any manner, shape or form, and Mr. Lincoln is the single individuals whose brilliance determined that this country would be saved, and survive so people like you, who advocate independent thought, even if it is fatally flawed, as your idea is about the Civil War, can discuss it on media like this.........STFN
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Old 05-03-2014, 11:59 PM
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Default Re: 7 W&L students demand removal of Confederate flags, decry view of Lee's legacy

[QUOTE=larryr;656165]Republicans are always bragging about being the party that ended slavery. That was the old school republicans. After reading posts from modern republicans, it seems that they are upset about the civil war. The "unjust" civil war also took plantation owners legally owned property from them. That property being the slaves. This in itself was unconstitutional. Without that war, America would be a happier place, the one percenter could still have their slaves, and the blacks would be better off also. They wouldn't be slaves to the democratic party voting machine.[/QUOTE]

Did you mean to use a sarcasm smiley with this?
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