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Opinions & Editorials Discuss Obama the flim flam man. at the General Forum; Originally Posted by Xcali Any other time you would be denouncing the CBO as a hack outfit unworthy of attention, ...

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Old 07-21-2012, 10:02 PM
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Default Re: Obama the flim flam man.

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Originally Posted by Xcali View Post
Any other time you would be denouncing the CBO as a hack outfit unworthy of attention, now that it apparently agrees with you it's the best thing in the world... But they got it wrong I guess because Obamacare will be paid for once it's fully implemented. Our national debt is not going to increase, and the Deficits won't either.. that's what happens when you pay for programs with revenue increases.

I'm not worried... You are.
No matter what the facts are, you simply choose to ignore the ones that don't fit your opinion and go merrily on your way. You need to open your eyes and give Obamacare a hard look. We have 30 million people now who can't afford insurance that Obama wants to give insurance to, but it is going to raise everyone's insurance cost to do so. Once you start raising cost, even more people will no longer be able to afford insurance and we will have to provide for them as well so insurance costs for the people who still have insurance will have to raise once again. It will spiral out of control and come crashing down on our heads.

There isn't enough money to do this. Half of the people aren't paying any federal tax as it is. Taxes on everyone will have to be raised and instead of paying down the debt, it will be used to pay medical costs for the people who can't afford it. EVERYONE is going to have to pay Federal taxes.
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Old 07-21-2012, 10:46 PM
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Default Re: Obama the flim flam man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcali View Post
Any other time you would be denouncing the CBO as a hack outfit unworthy of attention, now that it apparently agrees with you it's the best thing in the world... But they got it wrong I guess because Obamacare will be paid for once it's fully implemented. Our national debt is not going to increase, and the Deficits won't either.. that's what happens when you pay for programs with revenue increases.

I'm not worried... You are.
First you claim some authoritative set of numbers "proves" Obamacare will pay for itself, then refuse to divulge the source of these numbers in susequent comments. Anyone living in reality ought to be worried about paying for Obamacare.
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:19 AM
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Default Re: Obama the flim flam man.

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Originally Posted by 40yearfan View Post
No matter what the facts are, you simply choose to ignore the ones that don't fit your opinion and go merrily on your way. You need to open your eyes and give Obamacare a hard look. We have 30 million people now who can't afford insurance that Obama wants to give insurance to, but it is going to raise everyone's insurance cost to do so. Once you start raising cost, even more people will no longer be able to afford insurance and we will have to provide for them as well so insurance costs for the people who still have insurance will have to raise once again. It will spiral out of control and come crashing down on our heads.

There isn't enough money to do this. Half of the people aren't paying any federal tax as it is. Taxes on everyone will have to be raised and instead of paying down the debt, it will be used to pay medical costs for the people who can't afford it. EVERYONE is going to have to pay Federal taxes.
That is what the Republican Party is telling you because they are upset that Obama actually passed healthcare when they have been promising for 40 years to pass healthcare. Them telling you and you believing that it will raise rates on everyone does not make it true. The program is designed to pay for itself in the future. EVERYONE should pay Federal income taxes, but they won't under this plan any more than they do now. All the revenue to cover the cost is built into the program.
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:20 AM
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Default Re: Obama the flim flam man.

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
First you claim some authoritative set of numbers "proves" Obamacare will pay for itself, then refuse to divulge the source of these numbers in susequent comments. Anyone living in reality ought to be worried about paying for Obamacare.
Read the bill.. if you feel like wading through 1900 pages ... It's all laid out in black and white just how this is being paid for.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:33 AM
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Default Re: Obama the flim flam man.

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Originally Posted by Xcali View Post
Read the bill.. if you feel like wading through 1900 pages ... It's all laid out in black and white just how this is being paid for.
The Obamacare bill is close to 3,000 pages. It is not surprising the Democrats who produced it behind closed doors would claim it pays for itself. CBO scoring of the bill relies on unrealistic assumptions per the scoring report. Later analysis by the CBO estimates costs at nearly double the total originally estimated. Please explain how adding up fictitious cost estimates and wishful revenue estimates is a productive exercise. Declaring that Obamacare is paid for is an act of faith. That is why the evidence that it is the most costly entitlement in history has to be ignored.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
The Obamacare bill is close to 3,000 pages. It is not surprising the Democrats who produced it behind closed doors would claim it pays for itself. CBO scoring of the bill relies on unrealistic assumptions per the scoring report. Later analysis by the CBO estimates costs at nearly double the total originally estimated. Please explain how adding up fictitious cost estimates and wishful revenue estimates is a productive exercise. Declaring that Obamacare is paid for is an act of faith. That is why the evidence that it is the most costly entitlement in history has to be ignored.
yeah, yeah, yeah,... keep telling yourself that. Claiming it is the most costly entitlement in history before anyone knows the actual cost is fear mongering.
The point is it's projected to pay for itself after the initial cost of implementing and that is dependent on the States complying with the new Medicaid expansion. If those 8 or 10 states decide to opt out of the medicaid expansion then the numbers will change. No one, Not Democrat, not Republican, not Independent knows exactly how much the initial cost is going to be. All they are doing now is speculating and making wild assumptions based on hate for Obama and fear of change. Read the bill...

Oh by the way you can download the PDF of the bill which is only about 1900 pages, not 3000 . But read it, all the details are laid out for you to see.
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Old 07-22-2012, 02:28 PM
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Default Re: Obama the flim flam man.

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Originally Posted by Xcali View Post
yeah, yeah, yeah,... keep telling yourself that. Claiming it is the most costly entitlement in history before anyone knows the actual cost is fear mongering.
The point is it's projected to pay for itself after the initial cost of implementing and that is dependent on the States complying with the new Medicaid expansion. If those 8 or 10 states decide to opt out of the medicaid expansion then the numbers will change. No one, Not Democrat, not Republican, not Independent knows exactly how much the initial cost is going to be. All they are doing now is speculating and making wild assumptions based on hate for Obama and fear of change. Read the bill...

Oh by the way you can download the PDF of the bill which is only about 1900 pages, not 3000 . But read it, all the details are laid out for you to see.
c
Why do you refuse to discuss the revenue projections prefering to blindly follow the highly suspect cost projections instead? Oh I know, because it is Obamacare. Even the CBO that produced the report you presumably rely on for the absurd claim it is paid for has repudiated its original cost estimate. Let's see Obamacare cost projections nearly double while revenues decline but it is "wild speculation" to question that it pays for itself. That is not partisan math it is delusion.
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Old 07-22-2012, 02:37 PM
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Default Re: Obama the flim flam man.

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
c
Why do you refuse to discuss the revenue projections prefering to blindly follow the highly suspect cost projections instead? Oh I know, because it is Obamacare. Even the CBO that produced the report you presumably rely on for the absurd claim it is paid for has repudiated its original cost estimate. Let's see Obamacare cost projections nearly double while revenues decline but it is "wild speculation" to question that it pays for itself. That is not partisan math it is delusion.
No one is refusing to discuss any revenue projections. The Program is complete with many taxes which will raise plenty enough revenue to pay for the program. Some of you here have even been so kind as to consistently complain about the " Biggest tax increase in history".. which is just more right wing fear mongering. On one hand you complain it raises taxes on the other hand you complain it costs too much... did you really expect it to be free of charge?..
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:26 PM
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Default Re: Obama the flim flam man.

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Originally Posted by Xcali View Post
No one is refusing to discuss any revenue projections. The Program is complete with many taxes which will raise plenty enough revenue to pay for the program. Some of you here have even been so kind as to consistently complain about the " Biggest tax increase in history".. which is just more right wing fear mongering. On one hand you complain it raises taxes on the other hand you complain it costs too much... did you really expect it to be free of charge?..
WTF is wrong with you? Do you not realize taxes have to be paid which equates to expensive? It's like you think tax money is free money. You can't possibly be this bad at math. Actually I think you probably are.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:38 PM
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WTF is wrong with you? Do you not realize taxes have to be paid which equates to expensive? It's like you think tax money is free money. You can't possibly be this bad at math. Actually I think you probably are.
So to you taxes automatically equates to Expensive?.. Must be more of that republican math you seem to like using. I don't think tax money is free, only you could think that. I happen to look at taxes as a way to contribute to the society in which I live. As long as there is Government there will be taxes. Just be glad they haven't gone so radical to go back to the 1960's when the top rate was around 90%.
So what if it costs a little up front. Once the program is in full effect it will pay for itself with tax dollars, hows that. Stop looking at taxes as YOUR money. Once you hand it over to the Government it becomes Government Money and Congress whom you help elect gets to determine where that money is spent. I'm fairly certain after you pay your electric bill you don't call the electric company and demand they spend your money the way YOU want it so why do you expect the Government to be any different. It's the system we have had since the founding of the nation, if you don't like it why not find a place that doesn't charge taxes and move.... Good Luck finding that.
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