Raise Taxes on Rich to Reward True Job Creators

foundit66 · #1 (**permalink**) 05-17-2012, 02:40 PM

Quote:

It is a tenet of American economic beliefs, and an article of faith for Republicans that is seldom contested by Democrats: If taxes are raised on the rich, job creation will stop.

Trouble is, sometimes the things that we know to be true are dead wrong. For the larger part of human history, for example, people were sure that the sun circles the Earth and that we are at the center of the universe. It doesn’t, and we aren’t. The conventional wisdom that the rich and businesses are our nation’s “job creators” is every bit as false.

I’m a very rich person. As an entrepreneur and venture capitalist, I’ve started or helped get off the ground dozens of companies in industries including manufacturing, retail, medical services, the Internet and software. I founded the Internet media company aQuantive Inc., which was acquired by Microsoft Corp. (MSFT) in 2007 for $6.4 billion. I was also the first non-family investor in Amazon.com Inc. (AMZN)

Even so, I’ve never been a “job creator.” I can start a business based on a great idea, and initially hire dozens or hundreds of people. But if no one can afford to buy what I have to sell, my business will soon fail and all those jobs will evaporate.

That’s why I can say with confidence that rich people don’t create jobs, nor do businesses, large or small. What does lead to more employment is the feedback loop between customers and businesses. And only consumers can set in motion a virtuous cycle that allows companies to survive and thrive and business owners to hire. An ordinary middle-class consumer is far more of a job creator than I ever have been or ever will be.

Theory of Evolution

When businesspeople take credit for creating jobs, it is like squirrels taking credit for creating evolution. In fact, it’s the other way around.

It is unquestionably true that without entrepreneurs and investors, you can’t have a dynamic and growing capitalist economy. But it’s equally true that without consumers, you can’t have entrepreneurs and investors. And the more we have happy customers with lots of disposable income, the better our businesses will do.

That’s why our current policies are so upside down. When the American middle class defends a tax system in which the lion’s share of benefits accrues to the richest, all in the name of job creation, all that happens is that the rich get richer.

And that’s what has been happening in the U.S. for the last 30 years.

Since 1980, the share of the nation’s income for fat cats like me in the top 0.1 percent has increased a shocking 400 percent, while the share for the bottom 50 percent of Americans has declined 33 percent. At the same time, effective tax rates on the superwealthy fell to 16.6 percent in 2007, from 42 percent at the peak of U.S. productivity in the early 1960s, and about 30 percent during the expansion of the 1990s. In my case, that means that this year, I paid an 11 percent rate on an eight-figure income.

One reason this policy is so wrong-headed is that there can never be enough superrich Americans to power a great economy. The annual earnings of people like me are hundreds, if not thousands, of times greater than those of the average American, but we don’t buy hundreds or thousands of times more stuff. My family owns three cars, not 3,000. I buy a few pairs of pants and a few shirts a year, just like most American men. Like everyone else, I go out to eat with friends and family only occasionally.

It’s true that we do spend a lot more than the average family. Yet the one truly expensive line item in our budget is our airplane (which, by the way, was manufactured in France by Dassault Aviation SA (AM)), and those annual costs are mostly for fuel (from the Middle East). It’s just crazy to believe that any of this is more beneficial to our economy than hiring more teachers or police officers or investing in our infrastructure.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-1...k-hanauer.html

This guy hits the nail on the head.
A dollar in the hands of the common man does more for the economy than a dollar in the hands of the uber-wealthy.

The truth is that the rich are taking MORE of the pie these days than we have seen in history. The competition for this title is in the economic disparity at the time of the Great Depression.
Yet despite all this wealth in the hands of the uber-rich, our economy is still showing only menial growth. All the wealth in the hands of the supposed job creators, and oru unemployment is ridiculously high.

What will it take to get the right-wing to realize (or maybe the question should be to admit) that their absurd rhetoric is wrong.

GottaGo · #2 (**permalink**) 05-17-2012, 02:56 PM

And exactly how are you planning on getting the 'dollar into the hand of the ones that really create jobs'?

Taxing the uber-rich puts money into the hands of the government, who takes their cut, and passes it down to the low income people.

Kind of like promoting trickle-up poverty.

AzMike · #3 (**permalink**) 05-17-2012, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GottaGo

And exactly how are you planning on getting the 'dollar into the hand of the ones that really create jobs'?

Taxing the uber-rich puts money into the hands of the government, who takes their cut, and passes it down to the low income people.

Kind of like promoting trickle-up poverty.

It's exactly trickle up poverty. The only thing that can happen once you limit what a person can have the government realizes even that is too much and lowers the limit, for the good of the people of course. Pretty soon we run out of rich, fairly rich and even middle income people because the gravy train got to heavy to pull.

For some reason this guy feels guilty but a better solution would be for him to personally redistribute his own wealth. I'm sure he would never do that though.

saltwn · #4 (**permalink**) 05-17-2012, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundit66

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-1...k-hanauer.html

This guy hits the nail on the head.
A dollar in the hands of the common man does more for the economy than a dollar in the hands of the uber-wealthy.

The truth is that the rich are taking MORE of the pie these days than we have seen in history. The competition for this title is in the economic disparity at the time of the Great Depression.
Yet despite all this wealth in the hands of the uber-rich, our economy is still showing only menial growth. All the wealth in the hands of the supposed job creators, and oru unemployment is ridiculously high.

What will it take to get the right-wing to realize (or maybe the question should be to admit) that their absurd rhetoric is wrong.

But there are enough idiots out there eating the simple soup to make him ashamed he ever opened his mouth.

lurch907 · #5 (**permalink**) 05-17-2012, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundit66

Raise Taxes on Rich to Reward True Job Creators: Nick Hanauer - Bloomberg

This guy hits the nail on the head.
A dollar in the hands of the common man does more for the economy than a dollar in the hands of the uber-wealthy.

The truth is that the rich are taking MORE of the pie these days than we have seen in history. The competition for this title is in the economic disparity at the time of the Great Depression.
Yet despite all this wealth in the hands of the uber-rich, our economy is still showing only menial growth. All the wealth in the hands of the supposed job creators, and oru unemployment is ridiculously high.

What will it take to get the right-wing to realize (or maybe the question should be to admit) that their absurd rhetoric is wrong.

The only thing this guy hit on the head was himself.

Those middle class consumers he's talking about are the people that work for the companies his money started. Thinking that taking the money out of his hands and putting in the governments hands is going to create private sector jobs is nuts. This guy must have one of those middle class financial advisors making his investments for him.

AzMike · #6 (**permalink**) 05-17-2012, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn

But there are enough idiots out there eating the simple soup to make him ashamed he ever opened his mouth.

So what exactly are you going to purchase with this mystical free money from those that produce, I mean have too much?

This is the same communist line of thinking that failed. Do for yourself and let others profit from you for what you want and they created. If you don't allow that you will get nothing in return but soup lines to spend the people's money on.

AZRWinger · #7 (**permalink**) 05-17-2012, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurch907

The only thing this guy hit on the head was himself.

Those middle class consumers he's talking about are the people that work for the companies his money started. Thinking that taking the money out of his hands and putting in the governments hands is going to create private sector jobs is nuts. This guy must have one of those middle class financial advisors making his investments for him.

Well said. The guy is pushing a self contradicting theory to make it harder for people to get rich like he is.

foundit66 · #8 (**permalink**) 05-17-2012, 05:37 PM

Quote:

I can say with confidence that rich people don't create jobs, nor do businesses, large or small. What does lead to more employment is a "circle of life" like feedback loop between customers and businesses. And only consumers can set in motion this virtuous cycle of increasing demand and hiring. In this sense, an ordinary middle-class consumer is far more of a job creator than a capitalist like me.

So when businesspeople take credit for creating jobs, it's a little like squirrels taking credit for creating evolution. In fact, it's the other way around.

Anyone who's ever run a business knows that hiring more people is a capitalists course of last resort, something we do only when increasing customer demand requires it. In this sense, calling ourselves job creators isn't just inaccurate, it's disingenuous.

That's why our current policies are so upside down. When you have a tax system in which most of the exemptions and the lowest rates benefit the richest, all in the name of job creation, all that happens is that the rich get richer.

Read more: An Uber-Wealthy Venture Capitalist Gave A TED Talk Saying Rich People Don't Create Jobs ? And TED Is Refusing To Post It - Business Insider

Quote:

Originally Posted by GottaGo

And exactly how are you planning on getting the 'dollar into the hand of the ones that really create jobs'?

For one, we NEED to recognize that the talking points of the right are fundamentally flawed.
STOP talking about tax cuts for the uber rich like they'll somehow help the economy. They won't.
STOP talking about tax cuts for corporations like they'll somehow help get more jobs. As the guy said, DEMAND drives more jobs.
NOT more money in the corporation hands...

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurch907

The only thing this guy hit on the head was himself.
Those middle class consumers he's talking about are the people that work for the companies his money started. Thinking that taking the money out of his hands and putting in the governments hands is going to create private sector jobs is nuts. This guy must have one of those middle class financial advisors making his investments for him.

"Thinking that taking the money out of his hands and putting in the governments hands is going to create private sector jobs is nuts"
Where did he say that?

Do you refute that a $1 in the hands of the common man does more for the economy than a $1 in the hands of the uber-rich?

You guys keep trying to repeat your conclusions but you refuse to address the fundamentals of the problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzMike

This is the same communist line of thinking that failed.

How the hell is what he ACTUALLY said communist?
Higher taxes on the rich are not innately communist.
Hell, if you want to go that route can somebody consider the tax rates we had under Reagan as "communist"???

saltwn · #9 (**permalink**) 05-17-2012, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzMike

So what exactly are you going to purchase with this mystical free money from those that produce, I mean have too much?

This is the same communist line of thinking that failed. Do for yourself and let others profit from you for what you want and they created. If you don't allow that you will get nothing in return but soup lines to spend the people's money on.

Good God are you afraid of success? This is the same line of thinking that got us the 50s. hello. You are full of it to say FDR had anything to do with the depression. You guys been saying that since the 30s. Now you try to pin this recession on Obama.
WHAT CAUSED THE DEPRESSION WAS SPECULATION AND A LAND BUBBLE
COUPLED WITH THE FACT THERE WAS NO REGULATION OF SAID BANKING PRACTICES.

We put laws in place that stood us in good stead all the years until some butt heads weaseled our politicians into deregulating again. We also had high taxes on the rich AND THEY FLOURISHED.
So along with deregulation some saw that a little tax break would boost the economy. But remember just like make-up: all things in moderation.
We lowered taxes too fast and too often. At the same time mergers and deconstructions took place. We had globalization accelerated by the internet. People already on the fast track decided to use that for all it was worth.
Flucking easy credit comes along cause the Dems say give our kids a piece of the pie too!
Real estate speculation goes through the roof. Why? Because we have a crop of people who are in the market? No. Our wages have been going ever downward while the "economy" has been booming. The average couple can't afford to buy their way out of a paper bag. It's a false boom * emphasis is on salesmanship.

nobody has the guts to say the emperor has no clothes (translation: that house ain't worth 200 thousand dollars!)
Why not speculate on oil while we're at it? Hey party's rockin.
Doesn't matter if these new kids can pay off a mortgage cause with my new found "freedom" I can sell their paper to someone before the ink dries.
Rockin rockin boom-a-boom-stop.
There are no jobs for these people to pay off their mortgages. Even the ones who had good credit. We sold the farm to Taiwan and the Philippines.
people outta work lose more homes brings the whole house of cards down.
When the tin can is peeled back it reeks with what's inside-the banker and accounting story

I really hope you got it this time because I get tired of explaining it.

AzMike · #10 (**permalink**) 05-17-2012, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn

Good God are you afraid of success? This is the same line of thinking that got us the 50s. hello. You are full of it to say FDR had anything to do with the depression. You guys been saying that since the 30s. Now you try to pin this recession on Obama.
WHAT CAUSED THE DEPRESSION WAS SPECULATION AND A LAND BUBBLE
COUPLED WITH THE FACT THERE WAS NO REGULATION OF SAID BANKING PRACTICES.

We put laws in place that stood us in good stead all the years until some butt heads weaseled our politicians into deregulating again. We also had high taxes on the rich AND THEY FLOURISHED.
So along with deregulation some saw that a little tax break would boost the economy. But remember just like make-up: all things in moderation.
We lowered taxes too fast and too often. At the same time mergers and deconstructions took place. We had globalization accelerated by the internet. People already on the fast track decided to use that for all it was worth.
Flucking easy credit comes along cause the Dems say give our kids a piece of the pie too!
Real estate speculation goes through the roof. Why? Because we have a crop of people who are in the market? No. Our wages have been going ever downward while the "economy" has been booming. The average couple can't afford to buy their way out of a paper bag.
Why not speculate on oil while we're at it? Hey party's rockin.
Doesn't matter if these new kids can pay off a mortgage cause with my new found "freedom" O can sell their paper to someone before the ink dries.
Rockin rockin boom-a-boom-stop.
There are no jobs for these people to pay off their mortgages. Even the ones who had good credit. We sold the farm to Taiwan and the Philippines.
people outta work lose more homes brings the whole house of cards down.
When the tin can is peeled back it reeks with what's inside-the banker and accounting story

I really hope you got it this time because I get tired of explaining it.

Nice rant but no reality. The housing market boomed due to government intervention. Those that played on the easy money get to lose now. Welcome to government intervention at its finest?

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