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Opinions & Editorials Discuss Reproductive Rights: How I Failed My Granddaughter at the General Forum; Originally Posted by Oftencold Of course one could. You know, contrary to popular misconception apples and oranges are very easy ...

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2012, 11:29 AM
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Default Re: Reproductive Rights: How I Failed My Granddaughter

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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
Of course one could. You know, contrary to popular misconception apples and oranges are very easy to compare. It is hard perhaps, for people who only think in terms of external and shallow appearances, to do so.

In this case the comparison is much, much easier, and quickly evaporates the childish notion that or government has historically exercised greater corporal control over women than men. This is transparently obvious but may need to be explained for the lest attentive students.

Men are subject to conscription, and may thereby be commanded to perform actions certain to result in death. Women are not.

American men have died and been maimed in their hundreds of thousands over two and a quarter centuries as a result of conscription, a direct form of Government control over their bodies. Women have not.

In this light, serious people will have a difficult job if they wish to convince themselves that women who engage voluntarily in reproductive acts are in some manner put upon by a misogynistic society when they are required to comport themselves as responsible adults. I have little doubt however, that with a careful substitution of emotionalism and scripted outrage for tiresome reason, many will manage the contortion.
In a magic class, that smoke and mirrors job would get you an A. As far as a class in government, law, and/or logic......total fail.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:32 AM
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Default Re: Reproductive Rights: How I Failed My Granddaughter

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Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
I don't believe that males in our society should be forced to fight against their will any more than I believe females should be forced to reproduce against their will. Both customs are barbaric. There has not been a draft since the early 70s (the same time, coincidentally, that abortion became legal), and I would be extremely surprised if there were ever another one. If there is, then you might have a point (although probably not the one you think you have).
In the past 40 years, since the civil rights movement, men have not been forced to fight against their will, and women haven't been forced to breed against their will. And Jim Crow laws have been abolished, and there have been many other positive changes as well.
It should be noted that even in the past when there was a draft in effect, men who didn't want to fight could easily obtain CO status, or get a medical or psychiatric waiver. And only the lower classes were required to participate, as middle and upper class young men of draft age were typically enrolled in college and therefore exempt.
So you see, it really is apples to oranges. When abortion was illegal, there was no conscientious objector status that a woman could obtain which would exempt her from being forced to reproduce against her will. There were no psychiatric waivers she could obtain, which would exempt her. And college girls weren't exempt either (not legally, anyway; the middle and upper classes of course always had an easier time obtaining safe abortions, even when abortion was illegal).

Anyway, if and when another draft is enacted, I'll fight against that with equal tenacity. The fact that there used to be drafts does not convince me that abortion should now be illegal. When there were drafts, abortion was illegal. Now abortion has been legal for nearly half a century, and there also hasn't been a draft in approximately that long.
Before the civil rights movement, there were a lot of civil rights abuses, a lot of things that weren't fair. But since then, the world has moved on.
Not to mention that forcing poor and ignorant women to gestate hardly carries the same government interest as does defending the country in a time of war.
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Old 04-02-2012, 11:28 PM
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Default Re: Reproductive Rights: How I Failed My Granddaughter

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Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
I don't believe that males in our society should be forced to fight against their will any more than I believe females should be forced to reproduce against their will. Both customs are barbaric. There has not been a draft since the early 70s (the same time, coincidentally, that abortion became legal), and I would be extremely surprised if there were ever another one. If there is, then you might have a point (although probably not the one you think you have).
In the past 40 years, since the civil rights movement, men have not been forced to fight against their will, and women haven't been forced to breed against their will. And Jim Crow laws have been abolished, and there have been many other positive changes as well.
It should be noted that even in the past when there was a draft in effect, men who didn't want to fight could easily obtain CO status, or get a medical or psychiatric waiver. And only the lower classes were required to participate, as middle and upper class young men of draft age were typically enrolled in college and therefore exempt.
So you see, it really is apples to oranges. When abortion was illegal, there was no conscientious objector status that a woman could obtain which would exempt her from being forced to reproduce against her will. There were no psychiatric waivers she could obtain, which would exempt her. And college girls weren't exempt either (not legally, anyway; the middle and upper classes of course always had an easier time obtaining safe abortions, even when abortion was illegal).

Anyway, if and when another draft is enacted, I'll fight against that with equal tenacity. The fact that there used to be drafts does not convince me that abortion should now be illegal. When there were drafts, abortion was illegal. Now abortion has been legal for nearly half a century, and there also hasn't been a draft in approximately that long.
Before the civil rights movement, there were a lot of civil rights abuses, a lot of things that weren't fair. But since then, the world has moved on.
If women don't want to "reproduce against their will," I can explain privately which activities they should eschew. Problem solved, and nobody had to die.
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Old 04-03-2012, 04:59 AM
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Default Re: Reproductive Rights: How I Failed My Granddaughter

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Originally Posted by catusfelidae View Post
In a magic class, that smoke and mirrors job would get you an A. As far as a class in government, law, and/or logic......total fail.
Then I invite you to provide cogent rebuttal. Like so many on the left, you appear to think that a simple denial is an augment. I await with very low expectations.
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Old 04-03-2012, 11:11 AM
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Default Re: Reproductive Rights: How I Failed My Granddaughter

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Then I invite you to provide cogent rebuttal. Like so many on the left, you appear to think that a simple denial is an augment. I await with very low expectations.
Why? Your argument is a load of claptrap that has been debunked time after time.

The fact that you and your ilk refuse to accept reality is your problem, and you are the only one who can resolve that problem. For me to attempt to do so would be akin to beating my head against a brick wall. That is a total waste of my time.

So you go right ahead repeating the same emotional claptrap and 'legal' garbage all you want.

When I have the free time, I'll continue to laugh at you.
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Old 04-03-2012, 02:59 PM
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Default Re: Reproductive Rights: How I Failed My Granddaughter

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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
If women don't want to "reproduce against their will," I can explain privately which activities they should eschew. Problem solved, and nobody had to die.
If people don't want to get into car accidents against their will, they shouldn't get into cars.

If people don't want to get mugged against their will, they shouldn't walk around outside.


Such utter horse****. Typical misogynistic bull****. If a woman doesn't want to have a kid, she should be abstinent her entire ****ing life.

Well, you know what you can do with your retarded little opinion on the matter.
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:02 PM
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Default Re: Reproductive Rights: How I Failed My Granddaughter

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Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
If people don't want to get into car accidents against their will, they shouldn't get into cars.

If people don't want to get mugged against their will, they shouldn't walk around outside.


Such utter horse****. Typical misogynistic bull****. If a woman doesn't want to have a kid, she should be abstinent her entire ****ing life.

Well, you know what you can do with your retarded little opinion on the matter.
It's hilarious that some idiots think they're going to outlaw something that's been legal for over forty years, especially something so central to the freedom and civil rights of over 50% of the population.
I guess they think they're going to successfully bring back Jim Crow laws as well.
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:09 PM
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Default Re: Reproductive Rights: How I Failed My Granddaughter

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It's hilarious that some idiots think they're going to outlaw something that's been legal for over forty years, especially something so central to the freedom and civil rights of over 50% of the population.
I guess they think they're going to successfully bring back Jim Crow laws as well.
Not only has it been legal recently that long, but it was only ILLEGAL for less than a century. Abortion has been around since hunters and gatherers discovered plants and remedies. It's not going away. Women always have and always will have their reproductive control. That's not going to change unless they lock us all up.
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:11 PM
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Default Re: Reproductive Rights: How I Failed My Granddaughter

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Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
If people don't want to get into car accidents against their will, they shouldn't get into cars.

If people don't want to get mugged against their will, they shouldn't walk around outside.


Such utter horse****. Typical misogynistic bull****. If a woman doesn't want to have a kid, she should be abstinent her entire ****ing life.

Well, you know what you can do with your retarded little opinion on the matter.
No she should use preventative birth control and if she forgets a pill or it doesn't work she should have the baby and give it up for adoption like an ethical human being not some half alley cat prostitute.
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Old 04-03-2012, 03:14 PM
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No she should use preventative birth control and if she forgets a pill or it doesn't work
Ah yes, so she should use something that's going to kill it before it attaches to the uterine wall, because that's different than an abortion.

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she should have the baby and give it up for adoption like an ethical human being not some half alley cat prostitute.
No, she should do what's best for her and her family, like an ethical human being.
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