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Opinions & Editorials Discuss Florida teacher suspended for Facebook entry opposing NY gay-marriage law at the General Forum; Originally Posted by cnredd Free speech...Unless, of course, you disagree with the bureaucracy... Florida teacher suspended for Facebook entry opposing ...

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Old 08-22-2011, 12:35 PM
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Default Re: Florida teacher suspended for Facebook entry opposing NY gay-marriage law

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Free speech...Unless, of course, you disagree with the bureaucracy...

Florida teacher suspended for Facebook entry opposing NY gay-marriage law
If he had current students as friends on his facebook page, then yeah, he broke his professional ethics code. There are settings to keep your comments somewhat private. Not utilizing those functions is basically the same as standing on the street corner and yelling your comments to everyone that passes by.

I don't agree that he should be fired but he should be informed of how to keep those comments to himself and specific people he is conversing with through social media.

If he has current students on his facebook page, then it's not a free speech issue. It then becomes a fraternization issue.
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Old 08-22-2011, 12:37 PM
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Default Re: Florida teacher suspended for Facebook entry opposing NY gay-marriage law

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Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
FYI, this is not a freedom of speech issue. It would only be a freedom of speech issue if it was illegal for the teacher to say such things. It's not.

Freedom of speech does NOT mean freedom from consequences of that speech.

Example:
Husband posts on Facebook: "My wife is a dumb, fat, ugly bitch"
Wife: "I want a divorce"
Husband: "You're infringing on my freedom of speech!"

Nope, doesn't work that way. Only the govt can infringe of freedom of speech. Everything else is just consequences FOR that speech.
Excellant point - I did not think of it in that way.
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Old 08-22-2011, 01:32 PM
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Default Re: Florida teacher suspended for Facebook entry opposing NY gay-marriage law

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Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
FYI, this is not a freedom of speech issue. It would only be a freedom of speech issue if it was illegal for the teacher to say such things. It's not.

Freedom of speech does NOT mean freedom from consequences of that speech.

Example:
Husband posts on Facebook: "My wife is a dumb, fat, ugly bitch"
Wife: "I want a divorce"
Husband: "You're infringing on my freedom of speech!"

Nope, doesn't work that way. Only the govt can infringe of freedom of speech. Everything else is just consequences FOR that speech.
But the government IS infringing on speech...

The teacher works for a PUBLIC school...i.e - run by the government...

He was fired by a GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE...

If this were a private school or a company, I'd be on board with ya...

But what you simply call "consequences" is actually a GOVERNMENT ACTION...
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Old 08-22-2011, 01:35 PM
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Default Re: Florida teacher suspended for Facebook entry opposing NY gay-marriage law

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
But the government IS infringing on speech...

The teacher works for a PUBLIC school...i.e - run by the government...

He was fired by a GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE...

If this were a private school or a company, I'd be on board with ya...

But what you simply call "consequences" is actually a GOVERNMENT ACTION...
They are an employer. What he said is not illegal. That's the only way speech can be infringed up is if it's made illegal or otherwise legally constrained.

His speech had consequences. Yes, those consequences include action by a public employee, but not a legal action. A civil one. That's not infringement of speech.

That said, I don't think he should be fired OR reprimanded. I don't give a flying **** what a teacher says outside the classroom, I only care what they say inside the classroom. But despite that opinion, this is not a freedom of speech issue.
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Old 08-22-2011, 01:53 PM
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Default Re: Florida teacher suspended for Facebook entry opposing NY gay-marriage law

I'm seeing all these posts from people on the left and I'm just not getting it. You think your job should be able to dictate your personal life outside your job? Really?

As long as a person isn't caught doing something illegal, I think it's none of an employer's business what their employees do off the clock.
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Old 08-22-2011, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: Florida teacher suspended for Facebook entry opposing NY gay-marriage law

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Originally Posted by Kizzume View Post
I'm seeing all these posts from people on the left and I'm just not getting it. You think your job should be able to dictate your personal life outside your job? Really?

As long as a person isn't caught doing something illegal, I think it's none of an employer's business what their employees do off the clock.
That's a great theory but it doesn't work like that. When you make political/social statements in an on-line format and publish them for the world to see, you are basically proselytizing. That can come and bite you on the ass. It's not like he was in a bar with 50 of his closest friends being a douche. He was making a public and published statement to the entire world. I don't think his statement was all that bad and definitely not worthy of firing him over. However, the statement may run against his professional ethics code and what his employers want out of their employees. And if he had students friended on his page then he most certainly was still representing the school.
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Old 08-22-2011, 03:47 PM
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Default Re: Florida teacher suspended for Facebook entry opposing NY gay-marriage law

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Originally Posted by Idealogically Promiscuous View Post
That's a great theory but it doesn't work like that. When you make political/social statements in an on-line format and publish them for the world to see, you are basically proselytizing. That can come and bite you on the ass. It's not like he was in a bar with 50 of his closest friends being a douche. He was making a public and published statement to the entire world. I don't think his statement was all that bad and definitely not worthy of firing him over. However, the statement may run against his professional ethics code and what his employers want out of their employees. And if he had students friended on his page then he most certainly was still representing the school.
Going back to the OP, that means every teacher in Wisconsin that attacked Walker and anyone against public union collective bargaining in elected office in public protests "for the world to see" should be fired....RIGHT?...
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Old 08-22-2011, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: Florida teacher suspended for Facebook entry opposing NY gay-marriage law

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Going back to the OP, that means every teacher in Wisconsin that attacked Walker and anyone against public union collective bargaining in elected office in public protests "for the world to see" should be fired....RIGHT?...
At least subject to the rules of the district. Those rules vary from district to district.
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Old 08-22-2011, 03:56 PM
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Default Re: Florida teacher suspended for Facebook entry opposing NY gay-marriage law

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Going back to the OP, that means every teacher in Wisconsin that attacked Walker and anyone against public union collective bargaining in elected office in public protests "for the world to see" should be fired....RIGHT?...
I don't know, redd. Exactly how many union workers or anti union workers are you going to find among the students?

It seems that his professional ethics code states that the classrooms have to be all inclusive to the students. If union issues are a problem among high school students, then you got yourself a point there. If not, thanks for trying.
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Old 08-22-2011, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: Florida teacher suspended for Facebook entry opposing NY gay-marriage law

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Originally Posted by Idealogically Promiscuous View Post
I don't know, redd. Exactly how many union workers or anti union workers are you going to find among the students?

It seems that his professional ethics code states that the classrooms have to be all inclusive to the students. If union issues are a problem among high school students, then you got yourself a point there. If not, thanks for trying.
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