Camelot vs. Billary

dabateman · #1 (**permalink**) 01-30-2008, 01:48 PM

It appears that the Democratic party is fighting for identity. Are we the part of Jack and Bobby Kennedy, the party of big dreams and unified effort, or are we the party of Bill and Hillary Clinton, the party of win at all costs?

How are we to weigh the Camelot endorsement of Obama? What does it mean for the party?

cnredd · #2 (**permalink**) 01-30-2008, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dabateman

It appears that the Democratic party is fighting for identity. Are we the part of Jack and Bobby Kennedy, the party of big dreams and unified effort, or are we the party of Bill and Hillary Clinton, the party of win at all costs?

How are we to weigh the Camelot endorsement of Obama? What does it mean for the party?

It may depend on geography...

The South general goes against anyone from the Liberal Corridor (Northeast States) and Kennedy is the highest representative of that...

It increases his stature in places that were already Liberal, which will help in the primaries because it takes away from Hillary, but might hurt him in the generals...

Spencer Collins · #3 (**permalink**) 01-30-2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dabateman

It appears that the Democratic party is fighting for identity. Are we the part of Jack and Bobby Kennedy, the party of big dreams and unified effort, or are we the party of Bill and Hillary Clinton, the party of win at all costs?

How are we to weigh the Camelot endorsement of Obama? What does it mean for the party?

I don't think Ted's endorsement of Obama signifies a change of focus. His endorsement is based on Bill's refusal to back off on the team Clinton strategy.Ted placed a call to Bill this week and asked Bill to back off,apparently Bill refused and that upset Ted "Big Time". If Bill had agreed to back off a tad,Hillary would have had Ted's endorsement.

dabateman · #4 (**permalink**) 01-30-2008, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spencer Collins

I don't think Ted's endorsement of Obama signifies a change of focus. His endorsement is based on Bill's refusal to back off on the team Clinton strategy.Ted placed a call to Bill this week and asked Bill to back off,apparently Bill refused and that upset Ted "Big Time". If Bill had agreed to back off a tad,Hillary would have had Ted's endorsement.

There is really no evidence that Kennedy was going to back Clinton, but it's a big step bringing out the Senator, the Representative, and the Daughter of the President. If he was just making a point, he's going way overboard in making it.

Spencer Collins · #5 (**permalink**) 01-30-2008, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dabateman

There is really no evidence that Kennedy was going to back Clinton, but it's a big step bringing out the Senator, the Representative, and the Daughter of the President. If he was just making a point, he's going way overboard in making it.

Ted has one hell of a temper,if he feels he has been "disrespected" watch out!

crazyflamingos · #6 (**permalink**) 01-30-2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnredd

It may depend on geography...

The South general goes against anyone from the Liberal Corridor (Northeast States) and Kennedy is the highest representative of that...

It increases his stature in places that were already Liberal, which will help in the primaries because it takes away from Hillary, but might hurt him in the generals...

I am beginning to think this election may break all the stereotypes.

Yesterday I saw something happen in my state that I would not have dreamed would happen for another generation.

In a district that is over 90 percent white and that has a reputation for being one of the most racist areas in the South we elected a Black man to the State Congress.

When that can happen, I don't know where to lay my bets anymore.

cnredd · #7 (**permalink**) 01-30-2008, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyflamingos

I am beginning to think this election may break all the stereotypes.

Yesterday I saw something happen in my state that I would not have dreamed would happen for another generation.

In a district that is over 90 percent white and that has a reputation for being one of the most racist areas in the South we elected a Black man to the State Congress.

When that can happen, I don't know where to lay my bets anymore.

In situations like that, it's usually not a vote FOR that person, but a vote AGAINST their opponent...

A lot of people voted for Kerry NOT because they wanted Kerry, but because they hated Bush so much...

So voting for Obama against their "reputation" might just mean their hatred of Hillary was greater than their "racist beliefs"...

Or it could just mean your perception of the area was false...

crazyflamingos · #8 (**permalink**) 01-30-2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnredd

In situations like that, it's usually not a vote FOR that person, but a vote AGAINST their opponent...

A lot of people voted for Kerry NOT because they wanted Kerry, but because they hated Bush so much...

So voting for Obama against their "reputation" might just mean their hatred of Hillary was greater than their "racist beliefs"...

Or it could just mean your perception of the area was false...

I am not talking about Hillary vs Obama. This was a local election where a local Black man beat a local white man.

And my perception is just fine. I have lived here all my life and my ancestors for 3 generations before me.

When I lived away from here or traveled in other parts of the state, I heard what Black Alabamians had to say about my county. They were AFRAID to come here after dark in the 70s.

And going a little further back, this area was controlled by the KKK for at least half of the 20th century.

There used to be Black families all over the county a hundred years ago. Then around 1910 the KKK declared that all Blacks had until a certain day at sundown to get out of the county or they would be burned out. Two of my great-grandfathers had Blacks who worked for them and whom they had to help leave the county.

After that the the only Blacks here were a few household servants who worked for people wealthy and powerful enough that even the KKK did not want to cross them.

So far as I know there is still a KKK survivalist training camp about 15 miles from where I live.

Change has been coming here over my lifetime but it is slow and the election results yesterday surprised a lot of people who did not believe that we had come far enough yet to elect a Black man to any general office.

I have been thinking all along that my county would go Republican if Obama was nominated simply because he is Black. And I believed that he was unelectable because there are still too many places in the U.S. that are still as racially divided as the area where I live.

Now I am not so sure.

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