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Opinions & Editorials Discuss U.S. Recovery Might Need Public-Sector Unions at the General Forum; Originally Posted by dabateman It's semantics. You charge higher prices to compensate for your tax liability thus you pass the ...

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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 03-03-2011, 12:26 AM
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Default Re: U.S. Recovery Might Need Public-Sector Unions

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Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
It's semantics. You charge higher prices to compensate for your tax liability thus you pass the costs of the taxes onto your consumers. That doesn't change your tax liability, it only changes your method for paying it.
Of course it gets passed on you fool. There is no other "method" of paying those taxes. They are figured into the cost of doing business and passed on to the end user. End user...that would be you.

So whenever you hear these idiots screaming about tax rates needing to be at 90% for business what they really should be screaming is "I want the cost of everything I buy to go up by 90%!"

You get it yet?
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Old 03-03-2011, 12:31 AM
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Default Re: U.S. Recovery Might Need Public-Sector Unions

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
That's not true, AZMike. There is a far more destructive business illiterate sitting in the Oval Office right now, if he is not out shooting hoops or playing golf. Our President when he was running for the office proclaimed we ought to raise capital gains taxes even after agreeing it would reduce tax revenues and ignoring the implications of reduced capital investment, "fairness" he proclaimed would be served. Hello, managed economy.



You raise an interesting point, the acquisition costs of tax revenue. The "fair share coporate tax crowd" never considers that those 2 employee's labor could be directed to productive work if the government hadn't dragooned them into tax collector duty at company expense. Funny how Progryssve rhetoric is devoid of any consideration for this when issues like single payer healthcare are discussed.

No doubt we'd see the tax code radically simplified and overall taxation reduced if individuals paid all taxes instead of masking the tax burden with contrivances like the corporate income tax. Less money for the government to spends means less money for them to squander on social engineering schemes.
Everything Obama has done is making business more expensive, it's insane. Yet we still have people wanting to raise taxes on the very people that employ them and provide all of their cherished products. We are seeing the effects of these policies now.

Most people have no idea what a pain in the ass collecting taxes is. And yes in the end all it does is add to the cost of everything you do.

Here's crazy for you. See if this one makes sense. Every year you have to purchase a permit from every city you are doing business in that allows you to collect that cities taxes for them. Let that one sink in. A fee...so you can collect the cities taxes for them. Government is so ****ed up.
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:03 AM
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Default Re: U.S. Recovery Might Need Public-Sector Unions

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Originally Posted by Gordon Shumway View Post
by the same token to claim Exxon wasn't taxed at all simply isn't true even though they pass that cost along to the consumer
businesses paying more taxes just means we pay more for goods & services
kind of makes the point that the corporate tax rate should be zero (for all taxes)
Oh bull ****. If that's true prices should have been going down compared to paychecks since the days of JFK right up through Regan and Bush.
try again
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Old 03-03-2011, 09:59 AM
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Default Re: U.S. Recovery Might Need Public-Sector Unions

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Oh bull ****. If that's true prices should have been going down compared to paychecks since the days of JFK right up through Regan and Bush.
try again
Not when you take into account labor costs. In the late 70's, I could buy a 19" color television for around 500 dollars. Today, I can buy one for between 100 and 200 dollars. Is it the taxes that have changed, or the cost of labor (here and in Japan in the 70's vs China or Taiwan now)?
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Old 03-03-2011, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: U.S. Recovery Might Need Public-Sector Unions

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Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
Other countries don't offer deductions for business?
I'm not sure. But from what I've read it's difficult to make make tax rate comparisons - so saying a certain country has the highest tax doesn't necessarily translate into that country's business' having to pay the most in taxes.

From: http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/69xx/doc6...rporateTax.pdf

Quote:
International comparisons of corporate income tax rates are potentially difficult to carry out, for several reasons: effective tax rates may be measured in a variety of ways, the differences among countries’ tax rates may distort aspects of economic behavior, and the characteristics of countries’ economies may differ and interact in ways that affect how those nations’ tax systems should be compared.

Further complicating such analyses are the existence of subnational corporate income taxes, differences between the ways that returns to investments financed by debt and by equity are taxed, and the various ways in which taxable income may be defined and calculated. On the one hand, comparisons that do not fully account for such intricacies must be interpreted with care. On the other, an attempt to account for all factors would quickly become unwieldy as countries and years were added to
the analysis.
The report also looks at various parts of the tax code and makes comparisons, for example looking at depreciation:

Quote:
Machinery. For the 19 OECD countries in 2003, the present value of depreciation deductions for an investment in machinery, measured as a percentage of the initial cost of the investment, ranged from 66.4 percent to
87.1 percent (see Figure 2-7 on page 28). For the United States, the present value under the tax code in 2003 was 78.5 percent of the asset’s initial cost, which is higher than the present value of such deductions in more than 80 percent of the other OECD countries.12 In contrast, the present value of economic depreciation for machinery, under an assumption of economic depreciation of an estimated 12.25 percent, equals 55.1 percent of the value of an investment.13 Every country that CBO examined allowed depreciation deductions for machinery that were more generous than they would have been if they had been based on the estimated value of economic
depreciation.

Some of the countries whose statutory tax rates were among the highest also had some of the largest tax depreciation deductions for machinery. For example, the United States and Italy, which had top statutory corporate
tax rates that were some of the highest among the 19 countries, each allowed depreciation deductions for machinery that were some of the most generous. Ireland, which had the lowest top statutory tax rate, was among the countries with the least generous depreciation deductions. Overall, according to the data, countries with higher statutory tax rates tend to have larger tax depreciation allowances (see Figure 2-8 on page 29). Notwithstanding, depreciation deductions vary widely, regardless of the level of the statutory tax rate. Such variation indicates the need, when measuring effective marginal tax rates, to combine depreciation deductions and statutory rates.14
Page 13 of the report has a table that shows corporate taxes as a percentage of GDP which seems a better comparison. U.S. is significantly lower than equivelant countries. This seems to match what I've heard - and I have no source to support it, it's just in conversation - that we have a very attractive business climate for entrepenuers. In comparison to other developed countries we have fewer stifling regulations and taxes.


I'll admit - I DID NOT read this whole thing....I could be interpreting it wrong - but I can't imagine anything more boring -- it would be nice to find something in a more readible format
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Old 03-03-2011, 01:58 PM
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Default Re: U.S. Recovery Might Need Public-Sector Unions

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Oh bull ****. If that's true prices should have been going down compared to paychecks since the days of JFK right up through Regan and Bush.
try again
Taxes aren't the only thing driving cost, but they are one of the things driving them. Your statement is DUMB!!
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