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Old 11-16-2009, 10:49 PM
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Default Is it time to disband the U.S.?

I was having a discussion with Sulayman about it being time to break up the union. The country is split in two. And we can't seem to work together at all anymore.

So he figures the right should keep the red states and the left takes the blue. I agree. Why should we rot from being frozen in a partisan divide that is only getting worse? The right wants their own country I say give it to them
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: Is it time to disband the U.S.?

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
I was having a discussion with Sulayman about it being time to break up the union. The country is split in two. And we can't seem to work together at all anymore.

So he figures the right should keep the red states and the left takes the blue. I agree. Why should we rot from being frozen in a partisan divide that is only getting worse? The right wants their own country I say give it to them

As a matter of principle, I am not unalterably opposed to the idea (although such splits are often the result of determinist doctrine, combined with an anti-assimmilationist sentiment; which I find highly distasteful).

As a practical matter, however, I am unsure how even the most amicable divorce might work. After all, there are some conservatives in Massachusetts and some progressives in Georgia. Would they simply be forced to move to a state more congenial to their own views, or else accept the new reality, in which they would be hopelessly outnumbered?

Moreover, not all blue states are contiguous, and not all red states are contiguous either. So we would have something of a hodgepodge comprising the two nascent countries.

And then there is always the problem of what to do with the many purple states...
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:24 PM
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Default Re: Is it time to disband the U.S.?

First think about all the ramifications of disbanding the U.S. good and bad. States would be free to form foreign affiliations with "anyone" they wished.That could be a little dangerous,states who agreed to disband would soon be at war with each other.Would you tell me please why should we trade one so called tyrant in DC a few hundred miles away for 50 tyrants one mile away?
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:29 PM
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Default Re: Is it time to disband the U.S.?

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
I was having a discussion with Sulayman about it being time to break up the union. The country is split in two. And we can't seem to work together at all anymore.

So he figures the right should keep the red states and the left takes the blue. I agree. Why should we rot from being frozen in a partisan divide that is only getting worse? The right wants their own country I say give it to them
No. Other countries have survived with more polarization, we can too.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:15 AM
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Default Re: Is it time to disband the U.S.?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
I was having a discussion with Sulayman about it being time to break up the union. The country is split in two. And we can't seem to work together at all anymore.

So he figures the right should keep the red states and the left takes the blue. I agree. Why should we rot from being frozen in a partisan divide that is only getting worse? The right wants their own country I say give it to them
There's a problem with your analysis, and it's the same one we had with the civil war...

The blue states cannot SURVIVE without the red states...

Materials used in blue state factories come from red state geography...Just like cotten from the confederacy supplied the union's industrial complex...

If you REALLY want it that way, have a blast...But the new country of red states would hold all of the cards to the new blue states' countries' economy...Liberals wouldn't last 18 months...

Add to that the fact that "blue states" would supply entitlements to their citizens because they believe the government exists to take care of them while the "red states" would let individuals invest as their choosing, you can probably cut that 18 months in half...
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:41 AM
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Default Re: Is it time to disband the U.S.?

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There's a problem with your analysis, and it's the same one we had with the civil war...

The blue states cannot SURVIVE without the red states...

Materials used in blue state factories come from red state geography...Just like cotten from the confederacy supplied the union's industrial complex...

If you REALLY want it that way, have a blast...But the new country of red states would hold all of the cards to the new blue states' countries' economy...Liberals wouldn't last 18 months...

Add to that the fact that "blue states" would supply entitlements to their citizens because they believe the government exists to take care of them while the "red states" would let individuals invest as their choosing, you can probably cut that 18 months in half...
It figures you would think that the right would do better. But I would make that bet so fast it would make your head spin.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:55 AM
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Default Re: Is it time to disband the U.S.?

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It figures you would think that the right would do better. But I would make that bet so fast it would make your head spin.
I'm sorry, but simple deregulation would kill the blue states...

They wouldn't DARE let anyone drill for shale oil while the red states would not only let companies do so, but endorse it with tax subsidies and rebates...

That alone would end the argument...
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Old 11-17-2009, 04:47 AM
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Default Re: Is it time to disband the U.S.?

I'd have to move.
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Old 11-17-2009, 05:37 AM
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Default Re: Is it time to disband the U.S.?

It is not about red states vs blue states. The fact is America is truly becoming "slaves" to foreign lenders, like the Chinese? How will that affect the US in the long run? There is no good outcome...
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Old 11-17-2009, 06:01 AM
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Default Re: Is it time to disband the U.S.?

Great thread idea Mikey!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
As a matter of principle, I am not unalterably opposed to the idea (although such splits are often the result of determinist doctrine, combined with an anti-assimmilationist sentiment; which I find highly distasteful).

As a practical matter, however, I am unsure how even the most amicable divorce might work. After all, there are some conservatives in Massachusetts and some progressives in Georgia. Would they simply be forced to move to a state more congenial to their own views, or else accept the new reality, in which they would be hopelessly outnumbered?

Moreover, not all blue states are contiguous, and not all red states are contiguous either. So we would have something of a hodgepodge comprising the two nascent countries.

And then there is always the problem of what to do with the many purple states...
Blue people in red states and vice versa would simply have to move to the right place for them. In a generation or two it would be accomplished. Remember it took about three generations for the southern blacks to move up north after the civil war. The blue states would become blacker and browner and the red states would become whiter as a result but both would retain sizeable minorities.

Purple states may have to hold a referendum on which way to go or they may elect to stay out of either side.

The new red country would be an economic powerhouse and energy exporter, that's for sure.

It would be interesting to see what citizenship, voting rights and emigration laws the new nations adopt.

What international considerations would come up? For instance, would the new red country join the UN? I doubt it.

I think it would be a win win for both sides.
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