Can you answer this question about health insurers - Page 5

Mikeyy · #41 (**permalink**) 08-19-2009, 02:27 PM

When their premiums have gone up 400%. And you just made my point we haven't had a non profit do it. So maybe we should

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon Shumway

If you don't believe that they bring anything of value then cancel your insurance & see what kind of value it had.

Name a non-profit that provides health coverage & does so as efficiently as most insurers.

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& again...when did profit become a bad word?

faithful_servant · #42 (**permalink**) 08-19-2009, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeyy

You are telling me the function of health insurance. But a non profit can do that. So what intrinsic value do they bring

You can say the exact same thing about any industry, with one small detail left out of the equation: All businesses require start-up capital and in most cases that means getting investors. If the investors don't see an opportunity for a return on their investment, what incentive do they have for putting thier money at risk??

faithful_servant · #43 (**permalink**) 08-19-2009, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeyy

When their premiums have gone up 400%. And you just made my point we haven't had a non profit do it. So maybe we should

I don't think that you'll find one person on this board who thinks that ins. cos. aren't gouging people. But the solution isn't to dump the ins. cos. (and see the subsequent monsterous collapse of an entire industry and the loss of a huge amount of value in people's retirement accounts) and put the gov't with thie rlong track record of screwing things up in charge instead. I'd rather have competent greedy SOBs running things than incompetetent bureaucrats.

Mikeyy · #44 (**permalink**) 08-19-2009, 02:59 PM

We both know that private insurance companies are the biggest reason health care costs are what they are. So why is everyone so bent on supporting this model. I have pointed out where universal care works fine but that is ignored pretty much. Is there any model that you could support that does not involve for profit insurance?

Quote:

Originally Posted by faithful_servant

You can say the exact same thing about any industry, with one small detail left out of the equation: All businesses require start-up capital and in most cases that means getting investors. If the investors don't see an opportunity for a return on their investment, what incentive do they have for putting thier money at risk??

Mikeyy · #45 (**permalink**) 08-19-2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faithful_servant

I don't think that you'll find one person on this board who thinks that ins. cos. aren't gouging people. But the solution isn't to dump the ins. cos. (and see the subsequent monsterous collapse of an entire industry and the loss of a huge amount of value in people's retirement accounts) and put the gov't with thie rlong track record of screwing things up in charge instead. I'd rather have competent greedy SOBs running things than incompetetent bureaucrats.

Bureaucrats are Bureaucrat. If our insurance was already run by government you would be screaming that they have screwed it up and costs are rising to a ridiculous level. But because they are private its better?

Gordon Shumway · #46 (**permalink**) 08-19-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeyy

When their premiums have gone up 400%. And you just made my point we haven't had a non profit do it. So maybe we should

nope --- if they could & could do it as well they'd already be doing it.

Mikeyy · #47 (**permalink**) 08-19-2009, 03:35 PM

Well I think its time to try it here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon Shumway

nope --- if they could & could do it as well they'd already be doing it.

dga · #48 (**permalink**) 08-19-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faithful_servant

I don't think that you'll find one person on this board who thinks that ins. cos. aren't gouging people. But the solution isn't to dump the ins. cos. (and see the subsequent monsterous collapse of an entire industry and the loss of a huge amount of value in people's retirement accounts) and put the gov't with thie rlong track record of screwing things up in charge instead. I'd rather have competent greedy SOBs running things than incompetetent bureaucrats.

That's because there is no way to deny that. You mentioned your 10k hospital stay. That is what was billed to the insurance, but not what was paid out. My son's specialist bills $800 for one session (that's $18 a minute!!!), but my insurance pays about a fifth of that.

So... I have had three deliveries, my daughter has been hospitalized once, and my husband has had two outpatient surgeries. Let's say at a total billed of 50k. Saying that insurance paid out about a third (being generous) - that's roughly 17k. I personally have paid 43k in insurance premiums over the last 12 years - and I only pay a third of the premium, my company's payments to insurance companies would be roughly 72k.

So... Just for my family, health insurance companies have received 115k over 12 years, and have only paid out less than a fifth of that, even if I add on vaccinations, check-ups and annual physicals. That's a 576% return,

.

I agree with Mikkeyy, I can see much better uses for the 98k difference than the pockets of greedy businessmen. Somehow I would feel better if I thought that the money were at least going to the healthcare provider.

cnredd · #49 (**permalink**) 08-19-2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnredd

Bullsh*t!...

You can't name anything that worked when the government took control of it...AND cost the taxpayers...

Post Office swmming in money?...

How about Amtrak? (Federal funded for 30+ years)...

How's those Social Security and Medicare coffers lookin'?...

I fear the government because their track record is 0-for-EVERYTHING THEY'VE EVER TOUCHED...

But you, for some unrealistic reason, have faith in a lifetime .000 hitter...

Looks like there are others that see the obvious...

This is the "unAmerican, nazi, domestic terrorist" part of the mob the Democrats and Media(reduncancy) see...

Gordon Shumway · #50 (**permalink**) 08-19-2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeyy

We both know that private insurance companies are the biggest reason health care costs are what they are. So why is everyone so bent on supporting this model. I have pointed out where universal care works fine but that is ignored pretty much. Is there any model that you could support that does not involve for profit insurance?

ViewArticle

Quote:

The Australian healthcare system is in relatively good shape. Out-of-pocket costs are moderate and access to emergency care is good. However, there are a number of concerns for people without access to the pensioner-level subsidy for pharmaceuticals, especially for the chronically ill.

There are also extensive waiting times for elective surgeries at public hospitals. Although waiting lists for the most urgent elective surgery for heart disease and cancer are almost nonexistent, there are long waiting lists for orthopedic surgery (median wait for total hip replacement is 88 days; 10% of patients waited over 345 days in 1999 to 2000), and cataract surgery (median is 73 days; 10% waited more than 316 days). One of the attractions of health insurance is the ability to bypass public hospital waiting lists.

There are also problems of access in rural Australia. Although there is a flying doctor service and increased use of telehealth services, the very small populations in rural areas do not receive the same level of specialist cover and access.

There is also a significant problem of the health status of Australia's 427,000 indigenous people, with the life expectancy at birth for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people being 20 years below that of the total population.

Quote:

One of the worldwide fallouts of September 11 has been escalating costs of insurance and re-insurance arrangements, and this has placed pressure on the medical malpractice insurance in Australia. The major medical malpractice insurer in New South Wales (pop. 6.5 million) and Queensland (pop. 3.6 million) has recently collapsed, leaving doctors without coverage in their private work (state governments provide coverage for public hospital care).

Longer-term issues include concerns about the potential shortage of nurses in most states and the adequacy of equipment and capital funding, and general questioning about the level of financing of the system.

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Health care in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

In Australia the current system, known as Medicare, was instituted in 1984. It coexists with a private health system. Medicare is funded partly by a 1.5% income tax levy (with exceptions for low-income earners), but mostly out of general revenue. An additional levy of 1% is imposed on high-income earners without private health insurance. As well as Medicare, there is a separate Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme that heavily subsidises prescription medications. In 2005, Australia spent 8.8% of GDP on health care, or US$3,181 per capita. Of that, approximately 67% was government expenditure.

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approx. 20 million people...
try 300 million...
they also run a deficit.
our population is about 15 times higher than theirs.
however, our deficit is only about 10 times higher.
I suppose we could increase it 5 more times if you'd like.
plus we already have a public/private system.
the elderly get medicare & the poor get medicaid.
our veterans get VA.
we all support those systems through taxes & we pay for our own healthcare whether we buy insurance or pay as we go without insurance.

I guess the point is that you claim the aussie system "works" but they have issues as well.
Seemingly quite similar to our own.
No system is perfect.

While I like our system for the most part --- we do need some reform.
I don't think we need to junk the whole system
I would love to see our system get away from tying our healthcare coverage to our employers.

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