Update in case you missed the memo - Page 10

FrancSevin · #91 (**permalink**) 10-26-2020, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr wonder

Not sure what assumptions you're referring to ....or that assuming I'm making exactly.

My suggestions specifically was that lack of Church attendance may explain your lack of awareness of the factual basis of parts of the Biblical text. That's it. .
I wasn't questioning your faith or piety. I'm not now.

Stating you views with confidence is fine.
I do the same.
And based on what you wrote, It just seems to me that you lack some vital new information and/or you have biases against aspects of the Biblical text.

Sorry, i didn't mean to imply that Church attendance was the only path information concerning faith and the bible. not at all.
And I'm glad and impressed that you've studied into the subjects.
However I have to mention, I know people who have gone to seminary and LOST their faith.
Based on the type of "education" they received. An education that was based more on philosophy, modern psychology, and secular sciences and liberal theology which discounts most of the Bible as fable by default.

I make NO assumptions here about your education Franc.
But i will say that for myself what I studied as a interested layman 30 years ago about the Bible and it's historical basis and the sciences was FAR less compelling than what i've grown aware over in the 15 years.
It's frankly breath takingly compelling confirmations.
Compelling in the sense that I'm left with really no good reason's why I should doubt ANYthing the Bible teaches.
As long as i understand it as it's been presented. As poetry, parable, or history etc...

Are there still questions? SURE. But for me, on every subject, the Scriptural foundation appears to be the best ground to stand, to even ask the questions from.

But if you can't trust it, how do you really know what the message is?
And if you can't quote it, where exactly are you getting "the message" from?

I had to look up what "Misology" meant.
"Misology is defined as the hatred of reasoning; the revulsion or distrust of logical debate, argumentation, or the Socratic method."

Hopefully you don't think that someone who believes the Bible or quotes the Bible is devoid of reason, illogical or by default uneducated and walking in "blind faith".

well i guess you'll put me that category then.
However here's the thing, I believe i understand "the message" of Jonah and the fish. It's very explicit at the end.
But i don't see anything that "DEFIES LOGIC" about what happen in the account.
is the account fantastic? yes absolutely. illogical? uh no. Impossible? No.

Seems very reasonable to me that a God who made the universe would have ZERO problem making a fish to swallow a man and spit him up on land 3 days later.
As far as Jonah living in the fish? Well, who said he lived? Not the text. How many people died and God raised them from the dead?
Jesus himself said
"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
It's a debatable point to be sure. Did Jonah Die and was raised OR was he miraculously kept alive? Neither option is "illogical". there's no Logical problem. IF you believe God can do what he likes.
However If one assumes that God does NOT do any/many miracles, Or only miracles that SOUND reasonable and logical to them... then yes there's may SEEM to be a problem.

Both stories teach about faith, Yes. AND if understood as written show God's powers, mercy and faithfulness in history.
it's not an either or question it seems to me.

as far as Abaham Goes God never allowed anyone to sacrifice their children. and ONLY by reading (quoting) the text do we understand WHY we no longer sacrifice lambs.

Never questioned your faith, I questioned your view of the Bible.

Agreed

I'm not sure what you mean by "that".
If "That" is the sentence you wrote about "belief in Him and His Son" and "living life as best we can" " born sinners".?
then, yes, I'd agree that's primary. The thief on the cross knew about that much.
I'm glad you're there! AMEN
But still, I have a difficult time understanding how your view of the Bible gets you there. if i can't trust it outright, and it's "Illogical" where it's goes out of a zone or it's strays from popular secular or theological views.
The Bible seems more like a BUFFET that you're can picking and choosing from.

GEEZ how some go all over the map on this subject. Your "Logic" goes everywhere.

In the context of what I was describing, cults and political parties, misology was appropriate.
To mention some seminary students lose their faith is off the subject. I didn't. In fact my faith was stronger. Because of revelations, (in my soul not the book) my life purpose had changed.

As for the bolded, you're citing scriptures and preaching to the choir. More on that later in this post.

However If one assumes that God does NOT do any/many miracles, Or only miracles that SOUND reasonable and logical to them... then yes there's may SEEM to be a problem.
Here you inject a proposition based on nothing I ever said. WTH?

My view of the Bible is quite logical. No disrespect intended to those fundamentalist who believe every word to be factual. It is entirely possible they are right, and the real world we see, and in which we live, may in fact be a clever devilish illusion.

But for a book to have been translated hundreds of times of a history of God's people recording events back tour 7,000 year existence as modern Homo sapiens, is a bit much to prove ad irrefutable fact in every word.
Here's a troubling fact of which you and I experience in our relatively short lives as compared to man's history. he meaning of words change. Pull one word from a scripture, alter it's meaning to contemporary terms and see if the meaning of the phase remains the same.

The Gospel is the word yes, but I doubt ever word of the gospel is actually factual. Instead, the book, it's stories, it's telling's, it's wisdoms, it's examples are a clear guide to truths.

We have trouble with even the most modern parts of the Biblical renditions. Our church leaders allow showing the Cross as two posts one vertical one horizontal lashed or spiked together and for centuries framed it as one unit Christ carried through the streets of Jerusalem to the top of the hill. Such is in fact, the symbol of our faith.

Yet it is entirely incorrect. Christ bore only the horizontal "rail" to which he was lashed and later nailed. The cross was not raise with him on it but the rail pulled to the top of the permanent post.

It is minor and arguable what actually comprised the cross of which Christ was nailed. But the little details are likely magnified a thousand time in a thousand ways throughout the Bible.

Cutting to the heart of the matter, understand, the little details are unimportant to the whole message of the Book. And yet the placement of commas and other punctuations may well, at the same time, be significant.

It is quite illogical to place rigid validity on every single word or relation of events when in fact they are little more than news accounts from the perspective of the reporters. On the other hand, it is quite logical to believe the meanings of the gospel in their whole.

Like so many valuable writings, each part does not stand scrutiny alone but all stand as stone together.

You are welcome to dissect the text of the Bible all you want. Just as you dissected my postings so the overall meanings were erased. Out of context makes them vulnerable. And manipulative. But hardly proof they are universally factual.

The Gospel is a fact in and of itself. It's writings have change the world. Also our relationships to each other and our God. All for the better overall.

Jesus told parables. Were they stories of fiction or factual accounts. No matter.

To put it simply, the story of Jonah, no matter how one tries to explain it's possibility, is likely not a factual account. The lesson is.

Blessed is the word. One need not dissect it to believe. Better to live it.

mr wonder · #92 (**permalink**) 10-27-2020, 07:20 AM