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Open Discussion Discuss How Minneapolis police handled the in-custody death of a Black man 10 years before Ge at the General Forum; Originally Posted by mr wonder Here’s the thing Clue, I asked earlier if you or others here would subject yourself ...

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Old 09-13-2020, 07:49 AM
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Default Re: How Minneapolis police handled the in-custody death of a Black man 10 years befor

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
Here’s the thing Clue,
I asked earlier if you or others here would subject yourself to 9 minutes of that cop on your necks.
You replied that you and others here don't condone the action. That's great.
So the question at hand isn't about condoning the action but whether or not 9 minutes on any Political Wrinkles board member’s neck …in our various conditions of health... is something we'd expect to live through?
The simple and honest answer is no.
9 minutes on someone neck is not just "wrong" but in and of itself fatal for people at varying levels of health.
If Floyd had the Coivd virus would you also want to claim that THAT was the primary cause of his death?

Your, and JeersL’s, assertion is that the drug is the primary cause of death. As if the 9 minutes neck pressure is not fatal in and of itself.
And therefore give some thin medical cover... legal if not moral... to the former cops actions.
The challenge is to 2 major assumptions, that Floyd would have survived without the knee on his neck and that applied the knee only because Floyd is black.

The police body cam shows he was already complaining about having trouble breathing before the police touched him. The medical examiner's report concluded he had a dangerously high level of a drug that kills by inducing respiratory failure in his system. Would he have lived if the police hadn't applied the chokehold? We cannot know with certainty. Would he have survived the abuse by the police without the drug overdose? We cannot know that for certain either.

Thanks to the hysterical partisan spin the white cop, black suspect imagery is immediately transformed into systemic racism worthy of mass violent riots and the police are condemned as an occupying force. Due process for the officers? Forget it. All the lynch mob needs is the race of the participants to whip up fury. Race hustlers like Al Sharpton don't need evidence of racist motives to attack the police just like he did by exploiting Tawana Brawley.
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Old 09-14-2020, 06:54 AM
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Default Re: How Minneapolis police handled the in-custody death of a Black man 10 years befor

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
fentanyl overdose is a QUICK death not a nine minute ordeal with gasps and pleas for your mommy. People commonly find fentanyl ovedosed users dead in the midst of pose they had the moments they took the drug.
Depends on the purity and exposure method. An overdose in the bloodstream by injection kills faster than ingestion and absorption in the stomach.

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
But i have a simply question, would anyone here allow a 200 pound cop to put his knee on your neck for 9 minutes to prove it won't kill you?
Sure, if done exactly like Chavin did it.

Do you admit one can put a knee on a neck and not involve the primary circulatory and airway structures? . . . Do you agree that with a person on their stomach, facing away from the controller, a knee's pressure from the behind on the side of the neck, focused on the posterior of the neck, not involving circulatory and airway structures can be done?

The video shows this, Chauvin's knee is continuously adjusted to be focused on the posterior / dorsal part of the neck, avoiding the circulatory / airway structures, Floyd's ability to constantly speak proves this and the coroner's report and later comments to authorities proves it also.

If the kneeling killed Floyd, certainly some evidence of pressure injury to the circulatory and airway structures of the neck and evidence of asphyxiation would have been found. Instead, the coroner's report says, "No life-threatening injuries identified" and inexplicably, "No facial, oral mucosal, or conjunctival petechiae" were seen and, even with all this supposed pressure, "No injuries of anterior muscles of neck or laryngeal structures" were found . . . "no areas of contusion or hemorrhage within the musculature. The thyroid cartilage and hyoid bone are intact".

Even though Floyd was proned-out on the street with multiple police trying to control him, "No scalp soft tissue, skull, or brain injuries" or "chest wall soft tissue injuries, rib fractures (other than a single rib fracture from CPR), vertebral column injuries, or visceral injuries" were seen, and under "Incision and subcutaneous dissection" the "posterior and lateral neck, shoulders, back, flanks, and buttocks [were] negative for occult [hidden] trauma".

No evidence of strangulation or asphyxiation was found . . . What the coroner did find was Floyd's lungs each weighed over 1000 grams, 2X normal, and were, "diffusely congested and edematous". No doubt in his last hour Floyd was experiencing extreme respiratory distress but not from any actions of police, he was saying he couldn't breathe while upright, before the control measures were applied. The truth is, his respiratory difficulties were from fentanyl.

The coroner's supplementary memorandum says that, "if he were found dead at home alone and no other apparent causes, this could be acceptable to call an OD [overdose death]". The coroner also stated that the videos of Floyd (which he did not watch until after the official autopsy), "it appears like the kneeling is on the side of his neck, not where the structures are".

To the untrained, biased eye, any pressure on the neck is life-threatening; OTOH, the coroner saw nothing in the videos that led him to think the kneeling was the fatal action.

What evidence can you show that the kneeling caused Floyd's death?
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Old 09-14-2020, 11:35 AM
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Default Re: How Minneapolis police handled the in-custody death of a Black man 10 years befor

Can we all agree that if the cop had been black, and the perp white, it would be a non-story? No Riots, No looting, no arson!
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Old 09-14-2020, 11:50 AM
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Default Re: How Minneapolis police handled the in-custody death of a Black man 10 years befor

My take:

While I agree that police reform is BADLY needed. I do not believe police departments are institutionally or inherently racist. Probability alone dictates there there ARE racists within the police department just as there are in any walk of life. But, I'm just not seeing the evidence that police are inherently racists.

The narrative that police target people due to their race is just not accurate.

By making this claim, it detracts from the real problem which is an abuse of power problem and the fact that police are rarely held accountable for bad behavior.

It's absolutely ridiculous that one of the few cases where they ARE actually held accountable is the one people are rioting over.

These officers were fired AND criminally charged. But we're rioting over this case, not the hundreds of thousands of other cases where officers bad behavior has gone unpunished.

Finally, bad behavior on the part of police officers does not in any way excuse bad (WORSE) behavior on the part of those that are rioting.
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:23 AM
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Default Re: How Minneapolis police handled the in-custody death of a Black man 10 years befor

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
Here’s the thing Clue,
I asked earlier if you or others here would subject yourself to 9 minutes of that cop on your necks.
And being as EVERYONE here said that is what wrong, that was a ridiculous question to ask. You are arguing against yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
You replied that you and others here don't condone the action. That's great.
So the question at hand isn't about condoning the action but whether or not 9 minutes on any Political Wrinkles board member’s neck …in our various conditions of health... is something we'd expect to live through?
The simple and honest answer is no.
From the video I've seen, the officer had his knee on the side of Floyd's neck, not on his throat. Yes I could survive with someone kneeling on the side of my neck if my airway wasn't blocked as this appeared to be the case in this instance. Again, I am basing that on the video that I saw, nothing else.

But again, you are arguing with yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
9 minutes on someone neck is not just "wrong" but in and of itself fatal for people at varying levels of health.
If Floyd had the Coivd virus would you also want to claim that THAT was the primary cause of his death?

Your, and JeersL’s, assertion is that the drug is the primary cause of death. As if the 9 minutes neck pressure is not fatal in and of itself.
And therefore give some thin medical cover... legal if not moral... to the former cops actions.
Let me ask you something. Would you ingest that amount of Fentanyl that Floyd did and expect to live? I doubt it.
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