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Open Discussion Discuss Gamblers and stock traders at the General Forum; In the nineteenth century there were some people known as professional gamblers. Typically, these people did not work for a ...

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Old 05-15-2020, 02:55 PM
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Default Gamblers and stock traders

In the nineteenth century there were some people known as professional gamblers. Typically, these people did not work for a living (in the usual sense of the word, "work"). Probably because of this, they were looked down upon by most of society (that, plus the fact that they were predators).

Could the stock trader be the twenty-first-century equivalent of this? (After all, he does not contribute anything to society--either a product or a service--but merely takes from it.)

Thoughts?
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Old 05-15-2020, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: Gamblers and stock traders

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In the nineteenth century there were some people known as professional gamblers. Typically, these people did not work for a living (in the usual sense of the word, "work"). Probably because of this, they were looked down upon by most of society (that, plus the fact that they were predators).

Could the stock trader be the twenty-first-century equivalent of this? (After all, he does not contribute anything to society--either a product or a service--but merely takes from it.)

Thoughts?
Brokers contribute far more than you realize. They make a market in fractional ownership possible. No different than real estate agents or automobile dealers.

Without them half the companies in the US would not exist.

To say that providing that service is not a service is incorrect.
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Old 05-15-2020, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: Gamblers and stock traders

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Brokers contribute far more than you realize. They make a market in fractional ownership possible. No different than real estate agents or automobile dealers.

Without them half the companies in the US would not exist.

To say that providing that service is not a service is incorrect.
Just a couple of questions, viz.:

(1) Are you a devotee of Efficient Market Theory (sometimes referred to by its initials, EMT--and not to be confused with Emergency Medical Technicians)?

(2) And why, exactly, would "half the companies in the US" fail to exist without frequent traders (as opposed to buy-and-hold investors)?

Oh, and you have changed the subject from traders to "brokers."

Note: Perhaps a better comparison would be to the gunslinger (as opposed to, say, the general-store merchant.
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Old 05-15-2020, 07:38 PM
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Default Re: Gamblers and stock traders

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Just a couple of questions, viz.:

(1) Are you a devotee of Efficient Market Theory (sometimes referred to by its initials, EMT--and not to be confused with Emergency Medical Technicians)?

(2) And why, exactly, would "half the companies in the US" fail to exist without frequent traders (as opposed to buy-and-hold investors)?

Oh, and you have changed the subject from traders to "brokers."

Note: Perhaps a better comparison would be to the gunslinger (as opposed to, say, the general-store merchant.

(1) Not really. In a perfect world,all investors would be familiar with all information at the same time and presumably all would interpret that information in the same fashion. But it's not a perfect world. A people do not have the same information, nor do they think alike.

I've been trading stocks for 60 years. Trust me, at times I know of events happening before they happen. At other times other pieces of information just smell right.

and (2) Without stockbrokers one line of cash would dry up. Businesses would lose that avenue for funding. I'm aware that I used brokers and traders interchangeably. Basically two sides of the same coin.

As an example, I make trades often. With brokers I can place a buy or sell order and 3 minutes later I get a confirmation of completion. Without brokers (traders) I would be standing on the street corner frantically waving a certificate hoping for a buyer who wants a hundred shares of XYZ to walk by.

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Old 05-15-2020, 10:52 PM
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Default Re: Gamblers and stock traders

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Could the stock trader be the twenty-first-century equivalent of this? (After all, he does not contribute anything to society--either a product or a service--but merely takes from it.)
Oh, I disagree HEAVILY to that blue assertion...

Traders are the ones that increase or decrease the value of the product/service they decide to buy or sell (along with the company, itself, of course)...

Without publicly-traded stocks, many companies would not exist today, and a vast majority would not be in the their current situation or capacity...A whole bunch of "big box" corporations and companies were, at one time, forced to go public so others can invest with them, giving them the capital to continue to survive (and thrive)...
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Old 05-16-2020, 07:44 AM
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Default Re: Gamblers and stock traders

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Oh, I disagree HEAVILY to that blue assertion...

Traders are the ones that increase or decrease the value of the product/service they decide to buy or sell (along with the company, itself, of course)...

Without publicly-traded stocks, many companies would not exist today, and a vast majority would not be in the their current situation or capacity...A whole bunch of "big box" corporations and companies were, at one time, forced to go public so others can invest with them, giving them the capital to continue to survive (and thrive)...
Moreover, without shares of stock and an orderly market to trade them companies would be dependent on banks or wealthy investors for capital. In that environment competitors could be frozen out by denying them access to capital, the very opposite of what Leftists claim they want.

The stock market provides an opportunity for people of modest means to invest in business so we can grow our net worth. The alternatives of say savings accounts or precious metals, etc. have inferior returns and volatility issues. In addition, profits from shares of stock are not taxed until sold but shares can be easily liquidated as opposed to real estate which may require years to sell.
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Old 05-16-2020, 12:25 PM
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Default Re: Gamblers and stock traders

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I'm aware that I used brokers and traders interchangeably. Basically two sides of the same coin.
I am not quite sure why you would say this. Certainly, I am not at all opposed to stockbrokers.

I have some mutual funds--most of which are comprised of stocks.

I just believe in the buy-and-hold theory. (I am not at all congenial to some get-rich-quick scheme; I merely want financial stability for the present, and financial security for the future. I have not even the slightest desire for anything more.)
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Old 05-18-2020, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: Gamblers and stock traders

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The stock market provides an opportunity for people of modest means to invest in business so we can grow our net worth. The alternatives of say savings accounts or precious metals, etc. have inferior returns and volatility issues.
Why should these be the only alternatives to frequent trading?

Why not a buy-and-hold approach--with mutual funds (which are mostly comprised of stocks)--rather than a get-rich-quick approach?
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Old 05-18-2020, 11:02 PM
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Default Re: Gamblers and stock traders

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Why should these be the only alternatives to frequent trading?

Why not a buy-and-hold approach--with mutual funds (which are mostly comprised of stocks)--rather than a get-rich-quick approach?
Because some people LIKE the idea of "high-risk;high reward"...

"Playing it safe" is great for some, but not for all..
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Old 05-19-2020, 10:51 AM
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Default Re: Gamblers and stock traders

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
In the nineteenth century there were some people known as professional gamblers. Typically, these people did not work for a living (in the usual sense of the word, "work"). Probably because of this, they were looked down upon by most of society (that, plus the fact that they were predators).

Could the stock trader be the twenty-first-century equivalent of this? (After all, he does not contribute anything to society--either a product or a service--but merely takes from it.)

Thoughts?
Not that living in Las Vegas means I know anything about gambling, since I do not gamble. But I do know that the people that come here to gamble, provide much to our society, as do the people that work in the casinos, as they ALL pay taxes. Without the casinos, and the people running and servicing the casinos, the gambling would be under ground, and we would get ZERO tax dollars from that. Kind of like prohibition, right?

I think you are spot on with equating gambling, to working the stock market. I think it is almost exactly the same, right down to the gambling cheats, and insider trading. Done the right way, both contribute to society.
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