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Open Discussion Discuss Abuse of power at the General Forum; The Democrats frequently say that President Trump is guilty of "abuse of power"--and therefore, should be impeached. I would strongly ...

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Old 10-07-2019, 10:31 AM
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Default Abuse of power

The Democrats frequently say that President Trump is guilty of "abuse of power"--and therefore, should be impeached.

I would strongly deny that he is, in fact, guilty of such abuse.

But that is really not the point; so there is no reason to debate the matter here.

Article 2, Section 4 of the Constitution says that "[t]he President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors." [Bold added]

It is hard to see just how "abuse of power"--even if it were real, and not just a made-up charge--would fulfill any of the above definitions.

Comments?
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Old 10-07-2019, 11:12 AM
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Default Re: Abuse of power

Colin Powell: 'Foreign policy is in shambles' under Trump

Former Secretary of State Colin Powell declared Sunday that U.S. foreign policy is in “shambles” under President Trump.
“The Republican Party has got to get a grip on itself,” the retired Army general told CNN’s Fareed Zakaria during a discussion with former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright.
“Right now, Republican leaders and members of the Congress in both the Senate and the House are holding back because they’re terrified of what will happen to any one of them if they speak out,” Mr. Powell said. “Will they lose a primary? I don’t know why that’s such a disaster, but will they lose a primary?
“They need to get a grip, and when they see things that are not right they need to say something about it,” he said. “Because our foreign policy is in shambles right now in my humble judgment, and I see things happening that are hard to understand.”
Mr. Powell cited a recent controversy surrounding Mr. Trump reportedly circling Alabama with a Sharpie marker on a projection map for Hurricane Dorian.


“In my time, one of us would have gone to the president and said, ‘Mr. President, you screwed up, so we’ve got to fix it and we’ll put out a correction,’” Mr. Powell said. “You know what they did this time? They ordered the Commerce Department to go out and back up whatever the president mis-said.
“This is not the way the country’s supposed to run, and Congress is one of the institutions that should be doing something about this,” he continued. “The media has a role to play. We all have a role to play. We’ve got to remember that all of these pieces are a part of our government: Executive branch, Congress, Supreme Court and the Fourth Estate. We’ve got to remember that the Constitution started with, ‘We the People,’ not ‘Me the President.’”
This isn’t the first time Mr. Powell has criticized Mr. Trump. In 2016, he called the then-candidate a “national disgrace” and an “international pariah” in a hacked email to a former aide that leaked online.
Mr. Powell, who served as secretary of state under Republican President George W. Bush, said he still considers himself a “moderate Republican” who wants the U.S. to have a strong foreign policy.
“We have to look out for our people, and we ought to work hard to making sure we’re one country and one team,” he said. “And so, on that basis, I call myself a Republican.”

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...76u7FVFhkf4ldf


I agree with Powell and he is not lying with his comments....

I don't expect Trump supporters to consider any negative narratives in reference to their angry Messiah....
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:34 PM
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Default Re: Abuse of power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave1 View Post
Colin Powell: 'Foreign policy is in shambles' under Trump

Former Secretary of State Colin Powell declared Sunday that U.S. foreign policy is in “shambles” under President Trump.
“The Republican Party has got to get a grip on itself,” the retired Army general told CNN’s Fareed Zakaria during a discussion with former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright.
“Right now, Republican leaders and members of the Congress in both the Senate and the House are holding back because they’re terrified of what will happen to any one of them if they speak out,” Mr. Powell said. “Will they lose a primary? I don’t know why that’s such a disaster, but will they lose a primary?
“They need to get a grip, and when they see things that are not right they need to say something about it,” he said. “Because our foreign policy is in shambles right now in my humble judgment, and I see things happening that are hard to understand.”
Mr. Powell cited a recent controversy surrounding Mr. Trump reportedly circling Alabama with a Sharpie marker on a projection map for Hurricane Dorian.


“In my time, one of us would have gone to the president and said, ‘Mr. President, you screwed up, so we’ve got to fix it and we’ll put out a correction,’” Mr. Powell said. “You know what they did this time? They ordered the Commerce Department to go out and back up whatever the president mis-said.
“This is not the way the country’s supposed to run, and Congress is one of the institutions that should be doing something about this,” he continued. “The media has a role to play. We all have a role to play. We’ve got to remember that all of these pieces are a part of our government: Executive branch, Congress, Supreme Court and the Fourth Estate. We’ve got to remember that the Constitution started with, ‘We the People,’ not ‘Me the President.’”
This isn’t the first time Mr. Powell has criticized Mr. Trump. In 2016, he called the then-candidate a “national disgrace” and an “international pariah” in a hacked email to a former aide that leaked online.
Mr. Powell, who served as secretary of state under Republican President George W. Bush, said he still considers himself a “moderate Republican” who wants the U.S. to have a strong foreign policy.
“We have to look out for our people, and we ought to work hard to making sure we’re one country and one team,” he said. “And so, on that basis, I call myself a Republican.”

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...76u7FVFhkf4ldf


I agree with Powell and he is not lying with his comments....

I don't expect Trump supporters to consider any negative narratives in reference to their angry Messiah....
This is an opinion--and an angry one, at that--and is entirely non-responsive.

So I will ask again--in the (perhaps fatuous) hope that you might respond to the question--does "abuse of power" (even if it were to truly exist) constitute an impeachable offense?

And what is the basis for your answer?

(I will not hold my breath until you actually respond in a meaningful way--rather than simply editorializing.)
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:37 PM
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Default Re: Abuse of power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave1 View Post
Colin Powell: 'Foreign policy is in shambles' under Trump

Former Secretary of State Colin Powell declared Sunday that U.S. foreign policy is in “shambles” under President Trump.
“The Republican Party has got to get a grip on itself,” the retired Army general told CNN’s Fareed Zakaria during a discussion with former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright.
“Right now, Republican leaders and members of the Congress in both the Senate and the House are holding back because they’re terrified of what will happen to any one of them if they speak out,” Mr. Powell said. “Will they lose a primary? I don’t know why that’s such a disaster, but will they lose a primary?
“They need to get a grip, and when they see things that are not right they need to say something about it,” he said. “Because our foreign policy is in shambles right now in my humble judgment, and I see things happening that are hard to understand.”
Mr. Powell cited a recent controversy surrounding Mr. Trump reportedly circling Alabama with a Sharpie marker on a projection map for Hurricane Dorian.


“In my time, one of us would have gone to the president and said, ‘Mr. President, you screwed up, so we’ve got to fix it and we’ll put out a correction,’” Mr. Powell said. “You know what they did this time? They ordered the Commerce Department to go out and back up whatever the president mis-said.
“This is not the way the country’s supposed to run, and Congress is one of the institutions that should be doing something about this,” he continued. “The media has a role to play. We all have a role to play. We’ve got to remember that all of these pieces are a part of our government: Executive branch, Congress, Supreme Court and the Fourth Estate. We’ve got to remember that the Constitution started with, ‘We the People,’ not ‘Me the President.’”
This isn’t the first time Mr. Powell has criticized Mr. Trump. In 2016, he called the then-candidate a “national disgrace” and an “international pariah” in a hacked email to a former aide that leaked online.
Mr. Powell, who served as secretary of state under Republican President George W. Bush, said he still considers himself a “moderate Republican” who wants the U.S. to have a strong foreign policy.
“We have to look out for our people, and we ought to work hard to making sure we’re one country and one team,” he said. “And so, on that basis, I call myself a Republican.”

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...76u7FVFhkf4ldf


I agree with Powell and he is not lying with his comments....

I don't expect Trump supporters to consider any negative narratives in reference to their angry Messiah....
Sorry, but Powell has not had a good thing to say about Trump since he entered the race. If I believed this came from a fair and unbiased opinion, I may put some credence behind it. But Powell turned on the Republican party when Obama took office and has bashed the right with every chance he gets.

He is nothing but a partisan hack these days.
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: Abuse of power

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
Sorry, but Powell has not had a good thing to say about Trump since he entered the race.
That only confirms that CP is an intelligent man....
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Old 10-07-2019, 03:00 PM
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Default Re: Abuse of power

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
If I believed this came from a fair and unbiased opinion, I may put some credence behind it. But Powell turned on the Republican party when Obama took office and has bashed the right with every chance he gets.

He is nothing but a partisan hack these days.
You just contradicted yourself....

Powell is not a lock step liberal, he never has been....

Working for several "real great men" decades earlier gives him the necessary perspective on how lame Donald is in general....

If you can't handle that truth, oh well.....

You made my earlier point about lock-step blind Trump supporters not having the stones to ever criticize their Messiah.....
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Old 10-07-2019, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: Abuse of power

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post

So I will ask again--in the (perhaps fatuous) hope that you might respond to the question--does "abuse of power" (even if it were to truly exist) constitute an impeachable offense?

And what is the basis for your answer?

(I will not hold my breath until you actually respond in a meaningful way--rather than simply editorializing.)
Answer: Yes...

That element in the Constitution was put in place to avoid the concept....

Ala ~ Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors ="abuse of power"
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Old 10-07-2019, 03:57 PM
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Default Re: Abuse of power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave1 View Post
Answer: Yes...

That element in the Constitution was put in place to avoid the concept....

Ala ~ Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors ="abuse of power"
UH NOPE!

Abuse of power is unacceptable but not cause for Impeachment. It is cause for restraint by judicial decree and subject to court appeals, but in and of itself not impeachable. It is cause for losing an election. It is cause for censure. It is cause for legislative action.

This because such is defined in the eye of the beholder. Opposition party policy is not the bar allowed to be conveniently used to it's measure. Of course "Impeachment" is not removal. So unless the Senate agrees to "abuse of power" it is, except as a political stunt to hobble a sitting President, a worthless gesture.

High Crimes and misdemeanors are a very different crime.
High crimes and misdemeanors

The charge of high crimes and misdemeanors covers allegations of misconduct by officials, such as dishonesty, negligence, perjury of oath, abuse of authority, bribery, intimidation, misuse of public funds or assets, failure to supervise, dereliction of duty, unbecoming conduct, refusal to obey a lawful order, chronic intoxication, including such offenses as tax evasion. Offenses by officials also include ordinary crimes, but perhaps with different standards of proof and punishment than for nonofficials, on the grounds that more is expected of officials by their oaths of office. The word "High" refers to the office and not the offense. Indeed the offense may not even be a breach of criminal statute. See Harvard Law Review "The majority view is that a president can legally be impeached for “intentional, evil deeds” that “drastically subvert the Constitution and involve an unforgivable abuse of the presidency” — even if those deeds didn’t violate any criminal laws."
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Old 10-07-2019, 04:08 PM
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Default Re: Abuse of power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave1 View Post
Powell is not a lock step liberal, he never has been....
Can you name one thing where he hasn't been "lock step Liberal" in the last decade?...

Hell! TRUMP wasn't a Conservative 10 years ago!!!!...I'm sure you'd readily admit he's changed...Why can't you do the same for Powell?...
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Old 10-07-2019, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: Abuse of power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave1 View Post
You just contradicted yourself....

Powell is not a lock step liberal, he never has been....

Working for several "real great men" decades earlier gives him the necessary perspective on how lame Donald is in general....

If you can't handle that truth, oh well.....

You made my earlier point about lock-step blind Trump supporters not having the stones to ever criticize their Messiah.....
Powell is that prized Republican like John McCain who can be trotted out to blast the party as being untrue to the GOP establishment typically supine to Democrat demands. Powell was roundly condemned for supposedly lying US into the Iraq war but since he's decided to declare Republicans racist for not fawning over Obama and Trump evil incarnate for beating Hillary he is redeemed as a voice of reason and sagacity.

Powell's right about our foreign policy being significantly different under Trump. Under the old order NATO deadbeats didn't have to worry about fulfilling their obligations, the Chinese government could continue to steal our intellectual property and abuse our trade, the Iranians could continue funding terrorism on a massive scale while developing missile technology, the Mexican government could facilitate illegal immigration and drug smuggling, the Castro brothers could count on the US to legitimate their dictatorship and the Mexicans and Canadians could continue to enjoy the advantages of NAFTA. Yep, if we pretend a foreign policy status quo where the US was Uncle Sucker a soft touch and a villian who deserves to be treated with contempt is worth maintaining.

It should be easy to enumerate the ways our foreign policy has declined under Trump unless it's just another Orange man bad complaint.
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