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Open Discussion Discuss No personal days? at the General Forum; Originally Posted by GottaGo In the company I work for, if an employee actually walked off the job, that is ...

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Old 10-09-2019, 08:25 AM
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Default Re: No personal days?

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
In the company I work for, if an employee actually walked off the job, that is considered job abandonment, and would not have a job to return to, sometimes at the discretion of the supervisor. As to being asked to cook, a simple - I don't know how, and I don't believe that is my job here - would have been sufficient. If the employer insisted on it, then she had the right to refuse. Leaving the property is key to whether she would be eligible to receive unemployment - she leaves without being directed to do so, she has quit. Being told to leave, can take several forms - leave and don't come back (firing) or leave until you adjust your attitude (disciplinary).

If the request to cook was given as an ultimatum, is one thing, if given as a request, it's another.

There are very fine lines, and one must know how the address each individual situation.
Regardless of the reason, she walked away from employment. I doubt she has much chance of receiving unemployment.

Fact is Idonwanna is not a valid reason for being unemployed.
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:17 PM
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Default Re: No personal days?

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
An update: The employee to which I originally referred simply walked off the job today, when she was told to cook (when the actual cook did not show up)--and this is not a part of her job description.
Are you SURE this was not part of her job description?...

Was she hired for a specific job (example: cashier) or was she hired to do whatever job needs to be done there?...

In my job in Network Operations, simply sitting in front of computer screens all day is not standard. Sometimes, we'll decommission and unrack a 100lb device. Doing that also requires removing the cables, which can be a horror if it was attached to something 20 feet away.

If I were to say during my initial job interview (to quote Meatloaf), "I would do anything for employment, but I won't do that.", then I would've immediately been shown the door...

That's what's not quite clear here...

Did she say, "I'll work here, but I don't do cooking" and the owner agreed, then she may be right to bail...

If she agreed that employment meant performing all needed functions, and then decided against doing the ones she doesn't like, then she's being childish...Maybe a good thing she left....Less frustration on the owner...

There could also be variables that we don't know...

Does the cook constantly take off so she has to cook and she's just gotten sick of the cook's unprofessionalism?...

Did the owner crack the whip and say "Get your fat a$$ behind the grill!!!" and she didn't appreciate HIS unprofessionalism?...

Also, was this something that was simply the last straw?...Maybe she was 99% out the door, anyway, and this one, small demand broke her...

The point is that there may be more to the story that what the eyes and ears heard...
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Old 10-09-2019, 01:17 PM
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Default Re: No personal days?

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Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
She absolutely has that right. The owner needed a chef that day. She didn't want to be a chef. Bear in mind that the owner is now under no obligation to re re employ her. Or give her any kind of reference.

You seem to be under the impression that the sole purpose of a company is to meet the needs of the employee. It's not. Employers hire to meet their needs. Employees OTOH, are free to seek out employers more to their liking.
I very much agree with both the first sentence and the last sentence, above.

Oh, and I also agree with the observation that the manager (I think you said the "owner"--but, whatever) is not obligated to take her back.

But, as I observed previously: Even if he does not, I think she made the correct decision.

(Note: During my working lifetime, I never kowtowed to the manager. My attitude always was as follows: "There are basically three ways to do something: There is the right way; there is the wrong way; and there is my way. And I intend on doing things my way--irrespective of what anyone else would prefer.")

I suppose I could have been fired for that.

But I never was.

I guess I just always provided good results...
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:34 PM
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Default Re: No personal days?

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
I very much agree with both the first sentence and the last sentence, above.

Oh, and I also agree with the observation that the manager (I think you said the "owner"--but, whatever) is not obligated to take her back.

But, as I observed previously: Even if he does not, I think she made the correct decision.

(Note: During my working lifetime, I never kowtowed to the manager. My attitude always was as follows: "There are basically three ways to do something: There is the right way; there is the wrong way; and there is my way. And I intend on doing things my way--irrespective of what anyone else would prefer.")

I suppose I could have been fired for that.

But I never was.

I guess I just always provided good results...
When the person making the statement bold'd above, also signs the paychecks, there is no problem. However as an employee, if I feel that there is a better way to do something that was dictated to me, I will suggest the alternative. However, at the end of the day, the boss decides which way things are to be done if there is a conflict.

I have worked this way since day one and it has always served me well. I have also worked for people that have usually shown deference to my decisions on how to accomplish tasks that I am most familiar with and even some that I was not. It has also served me well in my 35+ years of employment.
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:04 PM
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Default Re: No personal days?

Second update: Just today, the person in question contacted the regional manager; and he overrode the district manager on this point.

He said that the district manager needed to hire more people--rather than expecting others to do the jobs of those missing.
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: No personal days?

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Second update: Just today, the person in question contacted the regional manager; and he overrode the district manager on this point.

He said that the district manager needed to hire more people--rather than expecting others to do the jobs of those missing.
Of course the district manager would say something like that... he's not the one trying to hire in a unbelievable tight employment market. You don't just have someone standing around waiting for another employee to not show up, that is a waste of money, and likely that employee won't hang around just waiting.

From the sounds of it, it was an immediate event, not a planned vacancy... so if that was so, then the district manager is incorrect in his assessment.

It is my experience, regardless of where one is on the proverbial ladder, that flexibility makes you more desirable to an employer, where those who aren't, tend to stagnate. Perhaps this is why I would never last in a Union, I am willing to go above and beyond to get the job done, and unions, IMO, are cinderblocks strapped to your feet.
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Old 10-09-2019, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: No personal days?

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Of course the district manager would say something like that... he's not the one trying to hire in a unbelievable tight employment market. You don't just have someone standing around waiting for another employee to not show up, that is a waste of money, and likely that employee won't hang around just waiting.

From the sounds of it, it was an immediate event, not a planned vacancy... so if that was so, then the district manager is incorrect in his assessment.

It is my experience, regardless of where one is on the proverbial ladder, that flexibility makes you more desirable to an employer, where those who aren't, tend to stagnate. Perhaps this is why I would never last in a Union, I am willing to go above and beyond to get the job done, and unions, IMO, are cinderblocks strapped to your feet.
Well said.

Truth be told, I think there is more to this story than we have been let to believe. There are always extenuating circumstances. I suspect some elements of the tale are missing. Nothing else but bad judgment on the part of the "Regional Manager" explains the stupidity, and unfairness, of the decision to allow a return to work.

From what we have been told, the employee rehused an assignment. And walked off the job.
In and of itself, such action demands termination in a fair labor practice. I'm betting there is more here than we have been told.
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Old 10-09-2019, 07:29 PM
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Default Re: No personal days?

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
I very much agree with both the first sentence and the last sentence, above.

Oh, and I also agree with the observation that the manager (I think you said the "owner"--but, whatever) is not obligated to take her back.

But, as I observed previously: Even if he does not, I think she made the correct decision.

(Note: During my working lifetime, I never kowtowed to the manager. My attitude always was as follows: "There are basically three ways to do something: There is the right way; there is the wrong way; and there is my way. And I intend on doing things my way--irrespective of what anyone else would prefer.")

I suppose I could have been fired for that.

But I never was.

I guess I just always provided good results...
You would not have lasted the week in my in my shop. There are 3 ways to do something. The right way, your suggestion, and my way. As an employee, you cannot possibly know the big picture. Which does not mean I did not listen to the suggestions.
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:28 AM
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Default Re: No personal days?

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Of course the district manager would say something like that... he's not the one trying to hire in a unbelievable tight employment market. You don't just have someone standing around waiting for another employee to not show up, that is a waste of money, and likely that employee won't hang around just waiting.

From the sounds of it, it was an immediate event, not a planned vacancy... so if that was so, then the district manager is incorrect in his assessment.

It is my experience, regardless of where one is on the proverbial ladder, that flexibility makes you more desirable to an employer, where those who aren't, tend to stagnate. Perhaps this is why I would never last in a Union, I am willing to go above and beyond to get the job done, and unions, IMO, are cinderblocks strapped to your feet.
I think you are misunderstanding my statement.

It was not the district manager who sided with the employee in question. (He was consistently opposed to her.)

Rather, it was his superior--the regional manager--who took the position that the employee was correct.

(By the way, you are entirely right about its currently being a very tight employment market . But I would suggest offering more money--or better benefits--or both, to prospective employees. And that, even if it meant increasing the price of food a bit, in order to compensate.)

Just my thoughts...
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Old 10-11-2019, 08:05 AM
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Default Re: No personal days?

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
I think you are misunderstanding my statement.

It was not the district manager who sided with the employee in question. (He was consistently opposed to her.)

Rather, it was his superior--the regional manager--who took the position that the employee was correct.

(By the way, you are entirely right about its currently being a very tight employment market . But I would suggest offering more money--or better benefits--or both, to prospective employees. And that, even if it meant increasing the price of food a bit, in order to compensate.)

Just my thoughts...
The regional manager made a huge mistake. Now any employee can refuse any task outside of what they consider their job classification. Unlock the door to open the restaurant for business, no way I am wait staff. Fix a problem with a customer's order, no way that's the manager's problem.

Sorry, the not my job folks who are unwilling to pitch in to keep the customers happy and their tips flowing are the first to get axed in layoffs. Employees need to adapt to the job not the other way round.

If it has a regional manager it sounds like the restaurant is part of a chain so the manager would not have the latitude to increase wages or benefits. They just need to hire better employees who would commit to making the restaurant successful.
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