Political Wrinkles  

Go Back   Political Wrinkles > General Forum > Open Discussion
Register FAQDonate PW Store PW Trivia Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Open Discussion Discuss President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis at the General Forum; There is surely no more hateful urban legend--and none more enduring, it would appear--than the one that claims that President ...

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2019, 06:22 PM
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tennessee
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,973
Thanks: 11,605
Thanked 4,319 Times in 2,784 Posts
Default President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis

There is surely no more hateful urban legend--and none more enduring, it would appear--than the one that claims that President Trump once described some KKK members and Neo-Nazis as "good people."

Democratic presidential hopeful Beto O'Rourke just repeated this falsehood.

But here are President Trump's exact words, from that Charlottesville event:

"Excuse me, they didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

And his further words that same day:

"I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally."

Whether Beto O'Rourke's words were an intentional fabrication, or simply part and parcel to the accepted zeitgeist (even if it is untrue), is quite unclear to me.
__________________
"In his second inaugural address, [Franklin D.] Roosevelt sought 'unimagined power' to enforce the 'proper subordination' of private power to public power. He got it…"—George Will, July 8, 2007
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to pjohns For This Useful Post:
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2019, 06:36 PM
Manitou's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas
Gender: Male
Posts: 20,349
Thanks: 549
Thanked 6,561 Times in 4,712 Posts
Default Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Whether Beto O'Rourke's words were an intentional fabrication, or simply part and parcel to the accepted zeitgeist (even if it is untrue), is quite unclear to me.
I call them lies from a demagogue. Beto should be arrested in the first place for butchering the Spanish language, also.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2019, 07:20 PM
Constant_Slothrop's Avatar
Counselor
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 925
Thanks: 4
Thanked 162 Times in 144 Posts
Default Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis

Please find one of the pictures of the “very fine people” on the same side as the white supremacists. These are the only sorts pictures I can find, and I’m having trouble picking out the very fine people in them.



Beto is right, no matter how much you want to change history.

Quote:
But some Trump supporters — and now Trump himself — have argued that he was taken out of context. They say he wasn’t referring to neo-Nazis, white supremacists and white nationalists when he referred to “very fine people” on both sides, but rather some other people who shared their cause of saving a statue of Confederate general Robert E. Lee.

“If you look at what I said, you will see that that question was answered perfectly,” Trump said Friday. “I was talking about people that went because they felt very strongly about the monument to Robert E. Lee — a great general, whether you like it or not."

The argument makes little sense when you consider the facts on the ground
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.8b2bae6e22cc

Last edited by Constant_Slothrop; 08-04-2019 at 07:25 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-04-2019, 09:36 PM
Conservative Sage
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 17,818
Thanks: 11,168
Thanked 11,829 Times in 7,019 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to AZRWinger
Default Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
Please find one of the pictures of the “very fine people” on the same side as the white supremacists. These are the only sorts pictures I can find, and I’m having trouble picking out the very fine people in them.



Beto is right, no matter how much you want to change history.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.8b2bae6e22cc
Opposing the Maoist purge of our history by removing the Robert E Lee statue as two of the 5 Charlottesville city council members did doesn't make someone a white supremacist.

Democrat officials encouraging the violent Leftist thugs of Antifa and BLM to attack protesters by explicitly proclaiming there is no room for "them" in the country are the real threat to the Republic. Of course Democrats are the party of slavery and segregation so it's no surprise they brazenly display intolerance.
__________________
What is a 30 something year old single man with a rock in one hand and a Honduran flag in the other?

An asylum seeker.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to AZRWinger For This Useful Post:
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2019, 03:38 AM
saltwn's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Esto perpetua
Posts: 81,401
Thanks: 55,469
Thanked 26,288 Times in 18,813 Posts
Send a message via AIM to saltwn Send a message via MSN to saltwn Send a message via Yahoo to saltwn
Default Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
There is surely no more hateful urban legend--and none more enduring, it would appear--than the one that claims that President Trump once described some KKK members and Neo-Nazis as "good people."

Democratic presidential hopeful Beto O'Rourke just repeated this falsehood.

But here are President Trump's exact words, from that Charlottesville event:

"Excuse me, they didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

And his further words that same day:

"I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally."

Whether Beto O'Rourke's words were an intentional fabrication, or simply part and parcel to the accepted zeitgeist (even if it is untrue), is quite unclear to me.
it was a nazi anti protest -protest. if you march in a nazi event you are not very fine people; you are a pos
__________________
Russia planted stories and the GOP believed them.
That's too funnie.
The GOP is a joke.
~DB
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2019, 07:58 AM
Constant_Slothrop's Avatar
Counselor
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 925
Thanks: 4
Thanked 162 Times in 144 Posts
Default Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Opposing the Maoist purge of our history by removing the Robert E Lee statue as two of the 5 Charlottesville city council members did doesn't make someone a white supremacist.

Democrat officials encouraging the violent Leftist thugs of Antifa and BLM to attack protesters by explicitly proclaiming there is no room for "them" in the country are the real threat to the Republic. Of course Democrats are the party of slavery and segregation so it's no surprise they brazenly display intolerance.
Leaving aside the question of why we should have monuments to people who committed treason against the United States, Trump says that he saw these “very fine people” in pictures of the people participating in the Charlottesville protests. Where are those pictures?
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2019, 11:27 AM
cnredd's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Gender: Male
Posts: 55,072
Thanks: 2,230
Thanked 35,311 Times in 20,257 Posts
Default Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
Leaving aside the question of why we should have monuments to people who committed treason against the United States, Trump says that he saw these “very fine people” in pictures of the people participating in the Charlottesville protests. Where are those pictures?


I bet the Left would believes every one of these people, had they been turned around, would have the "Covington teen smug face" they want to punch so badly...
__________________
"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to cnredd For This Useful Post:
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2019, 01:33 PM
Constant_Slothrop's Avatar
Counselor
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 925
Thanks: 4
Thanked 162 Times in 144 Posts
Default Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post


I bet the Left would believes every one of these people, had they been turned around, would have the "Covington teen smug face" they want to punch so badly...
I believe that picture was taken on March 22, 2016. See here (and notice the coats everyone is wearing.). In fact, according to the linked article, many, if not the majority, of the people in this picture were on the right side (arguing for removal of the statue). The Charlottesville rally where Trump says he saw the “very fine people” on both sides took place in August 2017.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2019, 01:45 PM
GetAClue's Avatar
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Northern Ohio
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,876
Thanks: 7,165
Thanked 4,846 Times in 2,763 Posts
Default Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
I believe that picture was taken on March 22, 2016. See here (and notice the coats everyone is wearing.). In fact, according to the linked article, many, if not the majority, of the people in this picture were on the right side (arguing for removal of the statue). The Charlottesville rally where Trump says he saw the “very fine people” on both sides took place in August 2017.
I happen to be someone that is against the removal of these statues. I am not from the South and I also feel that the Confederacy was wrong to attempt to secede from the Union. I was on the other side of the issue from the group that wanted these statues removed (not physically as I was no where near Charlottesville during these protests).

Does that make me a racist or a white supremacist?
__________________
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead - Thomas Paine

A lie doesn't become truth, a wrong doesn't become right, and Evil doesn't become good, just because it is accepted by the majority. - Booker T Washington
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2019, 03:57 PM
ShivaTD's Avatar
Progressive Libertarian
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Immigrant to Arizona
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,429
Thanks: 1,492
Thanked 2,312 Times in 1,839 Posts
Default Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
There is surely no more hateful urban legend--and none more enduring, it would appear--than the one that claims that President Trump once described some KKK members and Neo-Nazis as "good people."

Democratic presidential hopeful Beto O'Rourke just repeated this falsehood.

But here are President Trump's exact words, from that Charlottesville event:

"Excuse me, they didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

And his further words that same day:

"I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally."

Whether Beto O'Rourke's words were an intentional fabrication, or simply part and parcel to the accepted zeitgeist (even if it is untrue), is quite unclear to me.
It's always good to address the facts so let's start with the general facts first.

Quote:
Benedict Arnold (January 14, 1741 [O.S. January 3, 1740][1][2] – June 14, 1801) was an American military officer who served as a general during the American Revolutionary War, fighting for the American Continental Army before defecting to the British in 1780.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedi...o_change_sides

Benedict Arnold committed treason with his defection from the Continental Army and there are no public monuments with Benedict Arnold's name on them anywhere in the United States. The treasonous plot was exposed and no American soldiers lives were lost due to Arnold's act of treason.

Quote:
Robert E. Lee (1807-70) served as a military officer in the U.S. Army, a West Point commandant and the legendary general of the Confederate Army during the American Civil War (1861-65).
https://www.history.com/topics/ameri...r/robert-e-lee

Very similar to Arnold's acts leading up to treason Robert E Lee was also the commandant at West Point before departing to take up arms against the Constitutional government of the United States. An act of treason explicitly defined in the US Constitution. Unlike Arnold's case were no US soldiers lives were lost over 100,000 soldiers died after Lee assumed command of the Army of Northern Virginia in June of 1862.

The only fundamental difference between the treason of Benedict Arnold and the treason of Robert E Lee is that the traitors involved in the insurrection against the United States government during the civil war were all granted presidential pardon's for their acts of treason. They were both traitors but President Lincoln and President Johnson didn't believe it served the nation's interests to prosecute and execute hundreds of thousands of traitors in the Southern states. Lee received a presidential pardon for treason while Arnold did not.

These "Confederate" monuments were erected by the "KKK" to honor traitors motivated by white supremacy and to remind the "blacks" in the South that they were still an inferior people. Arguably there are no "fine" Americans that honor the memory of a traitor to the United States that fought to retain the institution of slavery and was responsible for the deaths of over 100,000 members of the US military that we honor every year on Memorial Day,

Now let's address the facts specific to the Charlottesville rally that President Trump was referring to in his statement.

Quote:
he Unite the Right rally[4] was a white supremacist[5][6][7][8] rally that occurred in Charlottesville, Virginia, from August 11 to 12, 2017.[9][10] Protesters were members of the far-right and included self-identified members of the alt-right,[11] neo-Confederates,[12] neo-fascists,[13] white nationalists,[14] neo-Nazis,[15] Klansmen,[16] and various right-wing militias.[17] The marchers chanted racist and antisemitic slogans, carried semi-automatic rifles, Nazi and neo-Nazi symbols (such as the swastika, Odal rune, Black Sun, and Iron Cross), the Valknut, Confederate battle flags, Deus Vult crosses, flags and other symbols of various past and present anti-Muslim and antisemitic groups.[18][8][9][19][20][21][22]
There aren't any "fine" people that would attend a rally hosted by White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, Neo-Confederates, Neo-Fascists or various other right-wing racist groups. I don't care if the rally was about selling Girl Scout cookies the "fine" people would avoid it and condemn it. I saw the same pictures of Charlottesville that Trump watched and I didn't see any "fine" people marching along chanting "The Jews will not replace us" and I doubt that any "fine" people attended David Duke's speech on Saturday night in Charlottesville.

Quote:
David Duke, the former KKK grand wizard, is unambiguous about what Saturday’s alt-right and neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, means to him: It’s the fulfillment of President Donald Trump’s vision for America.

“We are determined to take our country back,” Duke said from the rally, calling it a “turning point.” “We are going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in. That’s why we voted for Donald Trump, because he said he’s going to take our country back.”

Duke has remained a faithful Trump supporter since then, insisting that the president-elect’s policies line up with the former KKK leader’s vision for America.
https://www.vox.com/2017/8/12/161383...david-duke-kkk

As cited immediately following Charlottesville Trump said, "I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally."

A year later and Trump announces to the world that he's a (white) nationalist.

Quote:
"You know, they have a word – it’s sort of became old-fashioned – it’s called a nationalist. And I say, really, we’re not supposed to use that word. You know what I am? I’m a nationalist, okay? I’m a nationalist. Nationalist. Nothing wrong. Use that word. Use that word."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...al/1748521002/

There's no other type of "nationalist" in the United States because it always refers to the control of our social, economic, and political systems by white protestant men throughout American history. The KKK doesn't use the term "White" Nationalist either because it directly ties them to white supremacy and Trump is following the KKK handbook on being a racist.

President Trump's rhetoric and actions have mirrored the racist agenda of the KKK that David Duke advocated for 30 years! Trump's racist disparaging of four members of Congress where he's called them unamerican and told them to "go back where you came from" is something you'd read on Stormfront. Trump's Muslim ban and rejection of colored people from the "S-hole" counties in Africa (while welcoming immigration from Norway) is as white nationalist/white supremacist as it gets. Trump's refusal to follow the Refugee Act of 1980 that allows refugees to apply for asylum is right out of the KKK handbook.

Calling "Mexicans" rapists and criminals, claiming they're "breeders infesting America" and referring to the attempt by Hispanic refugees seeking lawful asylum in the United States as an "invasion" he's intentionally dividing America into "racists" and "non-racists" as he panders to his KKK and Neo-Nazis core supporters. His becoming a leader of the Birther Movement against President Obama was about While Nationalism/White Supremacy. Birther movements have historically always been based upon racism. His first presidential pardon was for Joe Arpiao that had been convicted of contempt for continuing racist (racial) profiling by the Maricopa Sheriff's Department.

The entire crisis at our Southern Border and Trump's wall is because Trump is a White Nationalist/White Supremacist fulfilling the dreams of the KKK and other racist groups. He encourages them with his words and actions and that encouragement is leading to a significant increase in White Supremacy acts of terrorism over the last 2-3 years.

We've been warned about Trump's racist rhetoric and actions that promote violence and murder by the White Supremacists and it's happening right in front of our eye. Connect the dots because not connecting the dots is done at the peril of the United States.

There are those in the racist right that are expressing a desire for an armed insurrection against the Constitutional government of the United States, a 2nd Civil War, and President Trump is encouraging that with his own white nationalism/white supremacy rhetoric and actions.
__________________
"I always had a rule, if a restaurant is dirty on the outside, it's dirty on the inside." Donald Trump

"I always had a rule, if the White House is dirty on the inside, it's dirty on the outside." ShivaTD

Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
and, klansmen, neonazis, president, trump

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0