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pjohns 08-04-2019 05:22 PM

President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis
 
There is surely no more hateful urban legend--and none more enduring, it would appear--than the one that claims that President Trump once described some KKK members and Neo-Nazis as "good people."

Democratic presidential hopeful Beto O'Rourke just repeated this falsehood.

But here are President Trump's exact words, from that Charlottesville event:

"Excuse me, they didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

And his further words that same day:

"I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally."

Whether Beto O'Rourke's words were an intentional fabrication, or simply part and parcel to the accepted zeitgeist (even if it is untrue), is quite unclear to me.

Manitou 08-04-2019 05:36 PM

Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pjohns (Post 975791)
Whether Beto O'Rourke's words were an intentional fabrication, or simply part and parcel to the accepted zeitgeist (even if it is untrue), is quite unclear to me.

I call them lies from a demagogue. Beto should be arrested in the first place for butchering the Spanish language, also.

Constant_Slothrop 08-04-2019 06:20 PM

Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis
 
Please find one of the pictures of the “very fine people” on the same side as the white supremacists. These are the only sorts pictures I can find, and I’m having trouble picking out the very fine people in them.

https://abagond.files.wordpress.com/...ine-people.png

Beto is right, no matter how much you want to change history.

Quote:

But some Trump supporters — and now Trump himself — have argued that he was taken out of context. They say he wasn’t referring to neo-Nazis, white supremacists and white nationalists when he referred to “very fine people” on both sides, but rather some other people who shared their cause of saving a statue of Confederate general Robert E. Lee.

“If you look at what I said, you will see that that question was answered perfectly,” Trump said Friday. “I was talking about people that went because they felt very strongly about the monument to Robert E. Lee — a great general, whether you like it or not."

The argument makes little sense when you consider the facts on the ground
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.8b2bae6e22cc

AZRWinger 08-04-2019 08:36 PM

Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop (Post 975798)
Please find one of the pictures of the “very fine people” on the same side as the white supremacists. These are the only sorts pictures I can find, and I’m having trouble picking out the very fine people in them.

https://abagond.files.wordpress.com/...ine-people.png

Beto is right, no matter how much you want to change history.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...=.8b2bae6e22cc

Opposing the Maoist purge of our history by removing the Robert E Lee statue as two of the 5 Charlottesville city council members did doesn't make someone a white supremacist.

Democrat officials encouraging the violent Leftist thugs of Antifa and BLM to attack protesters by explicitly proclaiming there is no room for "them" in the country are the real threat to the Republic. Of course Democrats are the party of slavery and segregation so it's no surprise they brazenly display intolerance. :o

saltwn 08-05-2019 02:38 AM

Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pjohns (Post 975791)
There is surely no more hateful urban legend--and none more enduring, it would appear--than the one that claims that President Trump once described some KKK members and Neo-Nazis as "good people."

Democratic presidential hopeful Beto O'Rourke just repeated this falsehood.

But here are President Trump's exact words, from that Charlottesville event:

"Excuse me, they didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

And his further words that same day:

"I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally."

Whether Beto O'Rourke's words were an intentional fabrication, or simply part and parcel to the accepted zeitgeist (even if it is untrue), is quite unclear to me.

it was a nazi anti protest -protest. if you march in a nazi event you are not very fine people; you are a pos

Constant_Slothrop 08-05-2019 06:58 AM

Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AZRWinger (Post 975813)
Opposing the Maoist purge of our history by removing the Robert E Lee statue as two of the 5 Charlottesville city council members did doesn't make someone a white supremacist.

Democrat officials encouraging the violent Leftist thugs of Antifa and BLM to attack protesters by explicitly proclaiming there is no room for "them" in the country are the real threat to the Republic. Of course Democrats are the party of slavery and segregation so it's no surprise they brazenly display intolerance. :o

Leaving aside the question of why we should have monuments to people who committed treason against the United States, Trump says that he saw these “very fine people” in pictures of the people participating in the Charlottesville protests. Where are those pictures?

cnredd 08-05-2019 10:27 AM

Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop (Post 975837)
Leaving aside the question of why we should have monuments to people who committed treason against the United States, Trump says that he saw these “very fine people” in pictures of the people participating in the Charlottesville protests. Where are those pictures?

https://i.ibb.co/WyhTb35/General-Lee-Statue-Protest.jpg

I bet the Left would believes every one of these people, had they been turned around, would have the "Covington teen smug face" they want to punch so badly...:rolls

Constant_Slothrop 08-05-2019 12:33 PM

Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cnredd (Post 975854)
https://i.ibb.co/WyhTb35/General-Lee-Statue-Protest.jpg

I bet the Left would believes every one of these people, had they been turned around, would have the "Covington teen smug face" they want to punch so badly...:rolls

I believe that picture was taken on March 22, 2016. See here (and notice the coats everyone is wearing.). In fact, according to the linked article, many, if not the majority, of the people in this picture were on the right side (arguing for removal of the statue). The Charlottesville rally where Trump says he saw the “very fine people” on both sides took place in August 2017.

GetAClue 08-05-2019 12:45 PM

Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop (Post 975869)
I believe that picture was taken on March 22, 2016. See here (and notice the coats everyone is wearing.). In fact, according to the linked article, many, if not the majority, of the people in this picture were on the right side (arguing for removal of the statue). The Charlottesville rally where Trump says he saw the “very fine people” on both sides took place in August 2017.

I happen to be someone that is against the removal of these statues. I am not from the South and I also feel that the Confederacy was wrong to attempt to secede from the Union. I was on the other side of the issue from the group that wanted these statues removed (not physically as I was no where near Charlottesville during these protests).

Does that make me a racist or a white supremacist?

ShivaTD 08-05-2019 02:57 PM

Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pjohns (Post 975791)
There is surely no more hateful urban legend--and none more enduring, it would appear--than the one that claims that President Trump once described some KKK members and Neo-Nazis as "good people."

Democratic presidential hopeful Beto O'Rourke just repeated this falsehood.

But here are President Trump's exact words, from that Charlottesville event:

"Excuse me, they didn't put themselves down as neo-Nazis, and you had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group – excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

And his further words that same day:

"I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally."

Whether Beto O'Rourke's words were an intentional fabrication, or simply part and parcel to the accepted zeitgeist (even if it is untrue), is quite unclear to me.

It's always good to address the facts so let's start with the general facts first.

Quote:

Benedict Arnold (January 14, 1741 [O.S. January 3, 1740][1][2] – June 14, 1801) was an American military officer who served as a general during the American Revolutionary War, fighting for the American Continental Army before defecting to the British in 1780.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedi...o_change_sides

Benedict Arnold committed treason with his defection from the Continental Army and there are no public monuments with Benedict Arnold's name on them anywhere in the United States. The treasonous plot was exposed and no American soldiers lives were lost due to Arnold's act of treason.

Quote:

Robert E. Lee (1807-70) served as a military officer in the U.S. Army, a West Point commandant and the legendary general of the Confederate Army during the American Civil War (1861-65).
https://www.history.com/topics/ameri...r/robert-e-lee

Very similar to Arnold's acts leading up to treason Robert E Lee was also the commandant at West Point before departing to take up arms against the Constitutional government of the United States. An act of treason explicitly defined in the US Constitution. Unlike Arnold's case were no US soldiers lives were lost over 100,000 soldiers died after Lee assumed command of the Army of Northern Virginia in June of 1862.

The only fundamental difference between the treason of Benedict Arnold and the treason of Robert E Lee is that the traitors involved in the insurrection against the United States government during the civil war were all granted presidential pardon's for their acts of treason. They were both traitors but President Lincoln and President Johnson didn't believe it served the nation's interests to prosecute and execute hundreds of thousands of traitors in the Southern states. Lee received a presidential pardon for treason while Arnold did not.

These "Confederate" monuments were erected by the "KKK" to honor traitors motivated by white supremacy and to remind the "blacks" in the South that they were still an inferior people. Arguably there are no "fine" Americans that honor the memory of a traitor to the United States that fought to retain the institution of slavery and was responsible for the deaths of over 100,000 members of the US military that we honor every year on Memorial Day,

Now let's address the facts specific to the Charlottesville rally that President Trump was referring to in his statement.

Quote:

he Unite the Right rally[4] was a white supremacist[5][6][7][8] rally that occurred in Charlottesville, Virginia, from August 11 to 12, 2017.[9][10] Protesters were members of the far-right and included self-identified members of the alt-right,[11] neo-Confederates,[12] neo-fascists,[13] white nationalists,[14] neo-Nazis,[15] Klansmen,[16] and various right-wing militias.[17] The marchers chanted racist and antisemitic slogans, carried semi-automatic rifles, Nazi and neo-Nazi symbols (such as the swastika, Odal rune, Black Sun, and Iron Cross), the Valknut, Confederate battle flags, Deus Vult crosses, flags and other symbols of various past and present anti-Muslim and antisemitic groups.[18][8][9][19][20][21][22]
There aren't any "fine" people that would attend a rally hosted by White Supremacists, Neo-Nazis, Neo-Confederates, Neo-Fascists or various other right-wing racist groups. I don't care if the rally was about selling Girl Scout cookies the "fine" people would avoid it and condemn it. I saw the same pictures of Charlottesville that Trump watched and I didn't see any "fine" people marching along chanting "The Jews will not replace us" and I doubt that any "fine" people attended David Duke's speech on Saturday night in Charlottesville.

Quote:

David Duke, the former KKK grand wizard, is unambiguous about what Saturday’s alt-right and neo-Nazi rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, means to him: It’s the fulfillment of President Donald Trump’s vision for America.

“We are determined to take our country back,” Duke said from the rally, calling it a “turning point.” “We are going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in. That’s why we voted for Donald Trump, because he said he’s going to take our country back.”

Duke has remained a faithful Trump supporter since then, insisting that the president-elect’s policies line up with the former KKK leader’s vision for America.
https://www.vox.com/2017/8/12/161383...david-duke-kkk

As cited immediately following Charlottesville Trump said, "I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally."

A year later and Trump announces to the world that he's a (white) nationalist.

Quote:

"You know, they have a word – it’s sort of became old-fashioned – it’s called a nationalist. And I say, really, we’re not supposed to use that word. You know what I am? I’m a nationalist, okay? I’m a nationalist. Nationalist. Nothing wrong. Use that word. Use that word."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...al/1748521002/

There's no other type of "nationalist" in the United States because it always refers to the control of our social, economic, and political systems by white protestant men throughout American history. The KKK doesn't use the term "White" Nationalist either because it directly ties them to white supremacy and Trump is following the KKK handbook on being a racist.

President Trump's rhetoric and actions have mirrored the racist agenda of the KKK that David Duke advocated for 30 years! Trump's racist disparaging of four members of Congress where he's called them unamerican and told them to "go back where you came from" is something you'd read on Stormfront. Trump's Muslim ban and rejection of colored people from the "S-hole" counties in Africa (while welcoming immigration from Norway) is as white nationalist/white supremacist as it gets. Trump's refusal to follow the Refugee Act of 1980 that allows refugees to apply for asylum is right out of the KKK handbook.

Calling "Mexicans" rapists and criminals, claiming they're "breeders infesting America" and referring to the attempt by Hispanic refugees seeking lawful asylum in the United States as an "invasion" he's intentionally dividing America into "racists" and "non-racists" as he panders to his KKK and Neo-Nazis core supporters. His becoming a leader of the Birther Movement against President Obama was about While Nationalism/White Supremacy. Birther movements have historically always been based upon racism. His first presidential pardon was for Joe Arpiao that had been convicted of contempt for continuing racist (racial) profiling by the Maricopa Sheriff's Department.

The entire crisis at our Southern Border and Trump's wall is because Trump is a White Nationalist/White Supremacist fulfilling the dreams of the KKK and other racist groups. He encourages them with his words and actions and that encouragement is leading to a significant increase in White Supremacy acts of terrorism over the last 2-3 years.

We've been warned about Trump's racist rhetoric and actions that promote violence and murder by the White Supremacists and it's happening right in front of our eye. Connect the dots because not connecting the dots is done at the peril of the United States.

There are those in the racist right that are expressing a desire for an armed insurrection against the Constitutional government of the United States, a 2nd Civil War, and President Trump is encouraging that with his own white nationalism/white supremacy rhetoric and actions.


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