Political Wrinkles  

Go Back   Political Wrinkles > General Forum > Open Discussion
Register FAQDonate PW Store PW Trivia Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Open Discussion Discuss President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis at the General Forum; Originally Posted by AZRWinger . . . Union occupying forces. . . “Union occupying forces”? What sort of crazy bullshltt ...

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2019, 09:14 AM
Constant_Slothrop's Avatar
Counselor
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 920
Thanks: 4
Thanked 162 Times in 144 Posts
Default Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
. . . Union occupying forces. . .
“Union occupying forces”? What sort of crazy bullshltt is that? The concepts of occupied territories and military occupation refer to the military presence of one country in the sovereign territory of another. That doesn’t apply to the presence of US troops in the United States.
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2019, 10:24 AM
Conservative Sage
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 17,576
Thanks: 10,920
Thanked 11,508 Times in 6,857 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to AZRWinger
Default Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
“Union occupying forces”? What sort of crazy bullshltt is that? The concepts of occupied territories and military occupation refer to the military presence of one country in the sovereign territory of another. That doesn’t apply to the presence of US troops in the United States.
At the time of occupation the states of the Confederacy had not been readmitted to the Union. Oh but it's much easier to lash out at the "other" even if it's thoughtless and uses the dishonest tactic of deleting almost all of someone else's comment.
__________________
What is a 30 something year old single man with a rock in one hand and a Honduran flag in the other?

An asylum seeker.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to AZRWinger For This Useful Post:
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2019, 11:27 AM
Dog Man's Avatar
Down Boy!
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Southern Nevada
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,793
Thanks: 5,102
Thanked 5,668 Times in 3,887 Posts
Default Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
You do recall that Lee and many, many other Confederates signed oaths of allegiance to the US after the war and encouraged others to do so. You do recall that Lee prohibited his troops from engaging in guerrilla warfare against the Union occupying forces. You do recall that Grant gave very Lee very generous terms for surrender. But none of that makes any difference to the self righteous charlatans puffed up on their own virtue.

Safely removed from the carnage and sacrifice of the civil war contemporary charlatans insist on reigniting the grievances from that conflict as a means of virtue signaling. Braying about anyone who opposes the Big Brother like purge of Confederate statues by locking them away in a museum supports slavery or is a traitor is classic Alinsky rubbing community resentments raw for political power at any cost.

Conveniently overlooked is the role of the Democrat party with its steadfast support for slavery in the antebellum South and segregation afterwards. The simple fact is there were no Republican slave owners, even black slave owners were Democrats. The Confederate army smeared as never to be forgiven traitors was a Democrat army. Yet the political institution that gave rise to the Confederacy, the clan and segregation isn't just absolved of its offenses against modern sensibilities, it's elevated to the great defender of civil rights, never mind the stench of hypocrisy.
Well now I am offended by all statues and other things that promote Democrats. I want all mention of Democrats removed from public places.....Gee that's easy.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dog Man For This Useful Post:
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2019, 11:34 AM
Jaaaman's Avatar
Outing liberal stupidity
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: South Texas
Gender: Male
Posts: 596
Thanks: 1,645
Thanked 394 Times in 257 Posts
Default Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
At the time of occupation the states of the Confederacy had not been readmitted to the Union. Oh but it's much easier to lash out at the "other" even if it's thoughtless and uses the dishonest tactic of deleting almost all of someone else's comment.
It's a dishonest debate tactic that this guy regularly engages in. Pathetic.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jaaaman For This Useful Post:
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2019, 12:26 PM
GottaGo's Avatar
Sanity is overrated.
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Miles to go before I sleep
Posts: 12,804
Thanks: 10,794
Thanked 9,005 Times in 5,609 Posts
Default Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
“Union occupying forces”? What sort of crazy bullshltt is that? The concepts of occupied territories and military occupation refer to the military presence of one country in the sovereign territory of another. That doesn’t apply to the presence of US troops in the United States.
According to the Confederacy, they were another nation. Union forces did occupy Confederate territory.
__________________
Your life is the sum total of the choices you make.
If you don't laugh at yourself, a whole bunch of people will volunteer to do it for you
I never lose. I either win, or I learn....
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GottaGo For This Useful Post:
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2019, 12:39 PM
Dog Man's Avatar
Down Boy!
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Southern Nevada
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,793
Thanks: 5,102
Thanked 5,668 Times in 3,887 Posts
Default Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
“Union occupying forces”? What sort of crazy bullshltt is that? The concepts of occupied territories and military occupation refer to the military presence of one country in the sovereign territory of another. That doesn’t apply to the presence of US troops in the United States.
Whatever you say, Spang!
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2019, 12:47 PM
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tennessee
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,843
Thanks: 11,303
Thanked 4,222 Times in 2,728 Posts
Default Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
it was a nazi anti protest -protest. if you march in a nazi event you are not very fine people; you are a pos
It was a protest of the renaming of a park--it could no longer be named after the leader of the Army of Northern Virginia, as that was just...well, it was politically incorrect...
__________________
"In his second inaugural address, [Franklin D.] Roosevelt sought 'unimagined power' to enforce the 'proper subordination' of private power to public power. He got it…"—George Will, July 8, 2007
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to pjohns For This Useful Post:
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2019, 08:51 AM
ShivaTD's Avatar
Progressive Libertarian
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Immigrant to Arizona
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,420
Thanks: 1,492
Thanked 2,302 Times in 1,836 Posts
Default Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurch907 View Post
You seem to be drawing a line where it shouldn't be. Just because a person doesn't want to see a statue of Lee torn down does not, in and of itself, make that person a treason supporter. Let me ask you this; If a person wants to leave up a statue of George Washington does that make them a supporter of slavery?
George Washington, like several of the ideological founders of America, inherited slaves. George Washington, like all of the ideological founders of America, opposed slavery. George Washington, a better businessman than many founders, was able to and did free all of the slaves he owned when he died. Others like Jefferson could not because their slaves (as property) were collateral for loans against their estate.

Quote:
Washington wrote his will several months before his death in December 1799. In the document, Washington left directions for the eventual emancipation of his slaves after the passing of Martha Washington. Of the 317 enslaved people at Mount Vernon in 1799, 123 of the individuals were owned by George Washington and were eligible to be freed as per the terms of the will.

By law, neither George nor Martha Washington could free the Custis dower slaves. Upon Martha Washington’s death in 1802, these individuals were divided among the Custis grandchildren. By 1799, 153 of the people enslaved at Mount Vernon were part of this dower property.
https://www.mountvernon.org/george-w...ngton-slavery/

Statues of Jefferson, Madison, Washington, Hamilton are not tributes to slavery because all of the ideological founders came to oppose slavery based upon their belief that all people are endowed with certain unalienable rights that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
__________________
"I always had a rule, if a restaurant is dirty on the outside, it's dirty on the inside." Donald Trump

"I always had a rule, if the White House is dirty on the inside, it's dirty on the outside." ShivaTD

Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2019, 09:28 AM
Manitou's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas
Gender: Male
Posts: 20,213
Thanks: 532
Thanked 6,484 Times in 4,665 Posts
Default Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
Leaving aside the question of why we should have monuments to people who committed treason against the United States, Trump says that he saw these “very fine people” in pictures of the people participating in the Charlottesville protests. Where are those pictures?
Those "monuments" were set up a long time ago. Whatever is known about the people the statues represent is not up to revisionists or weenies to alter. Let their history stand and do something else constructive, people.

In another example, imagine if some dorks in Egypt who took over the government decided that the pyramids stood for something like, say, worship of the skies instead of their god, and they decided to demolish them.

Can anybody tell me how stupid that is?
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Manitou For This Useful Post:
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2019, 10:35 AM
ShivaTD's Avatar
Progressive Libertarian
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Immigrant to Arizona
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,420
Thanks: 1,492
Thanked 2,302 Times in 1,836 Posts
Default Re: President Trump, Klansmen, and Neo-Nazis

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
For those who have forgotten, or never learned it, separation from the Union was legal under the original founding agreements between the nation states known as the Thirteen Colonies. Not only was it perceived as legal at the time, it was not, I repeat, not treason.

General Lee had no visions or intentions of overthrowing the government of the USA. His allegiance was to the State of Virginia, where, at the time, it belonged.
This is nonsense. All thirteen of the original colonies, that were recognized as individual sovereign states under the Articles of Confederation, rescinded their individual sovereignty when they ratified the Constitution of the United States as have all "states" or territories that have since joined the United States.

The Constitution, from the very beginning and at the time of ratification, established itself as the Supreme Law of the Land and subjugated all state laws and actions to the Constitution. The Constitution provides the means for any state to challenge any infringements upon the subordinate rights of the states delegated to them under the Constitution (i.e. appeal to the Supreme Court) including the possibility of leaving the United States to re-establish their individual sovereignty (i.e. either by mutual consent of Congress and the State Legislature or by Constitutional Amendment).

The "civil war" was explicitly about overthrowing the authority of the US government in territories that belonged to the US government. No, the insurrection was not about overthrowing the Constitutional government of the United States in all of the territory that encompassed the United States but it was unquestionably about overthrowing that authority and jurisdiction in part of the territory under the sovereign authority of the United States.

The "civil war" often refers to the "secession" of the Confederate states but that had no legal meaning. The "civil war" was an insurrection against the Constitutional government of the United States and not a secession where those "states" re-established their individual sovereignty. Not a single foreign nation anywhere on earth ever acknowledged the independent sovereignty of any of the "Confederate States" of America. NONE!

That those that were involved in the insurrection against the Constitutional government of the United States did not commit treason or other related criminal acts is disproven by the Presidential pardons for those involved in the Confederate insurrection.

Quote:
During his presidency Lincoln issued 64 pardons for war-related offences; 22 for conspiracy, 17 for treason, 12 for rebellion, 9 for holding an office under the Confederacy, and 4 for serving with the rebels.[2]

As Johnson assumed the presidency his attitude toward Confederate leaders seemed to signify punishment and prosecution for the rebellion. Many southern leaders fled the United States, going to Mexico, Canada, Europe and other countries. He doubled the number of exempted classes that had been exempted by Lincoln. Johnson's proclamation of May 29, 1865, for example, did not include anyone whose personal property exceeded $20,000. Several mitigating factors however led Johnson to greater clemency, influenced by the attitude of Lincoln for reconciliation and William H. Seward's similar leniency towards the former rebels.[4]

Those excluded from general amnesty had the option of applying to the president for a special pardon, and much of Johnson's time was spent in granting these pardons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardon...x-Confederates

Ultimately everyone that served the Confederacy was exempted from prosecution for treason and related offenses by Lincoln's pardon's, Johnson's clemency, or by applying for a special pardon. When pardon's and clemency are accepted they always require the person seeking the pardon and clemency to admit to the crime. A pardon and/or clemency can only be granted to someone that committed the crime.

Yes, I know, our history books didn't teach it to us this way but our history books were also distorted with revisionist history by White Supremacy propaganda. Hopefully those textbooks are being revised to reflect the truth about the "Civil War" and the first thing that should be done is to stop calling it a "Civil War" because it was a "War of Insurrection" by the Confederacy.
__________________
"I always had a rule, if a restaurant is dirty on the outside, it's dirty on the inside." Donald Trump

"I always had a rule, if the White House is dirty on the inside, it's dirty on the outside." ShivaTD

Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
and, klansmen, neonazis, president, trump

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0