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Open Discussion Discuss Independence Day and Britons at the General Forum; I seriously wonder just how a Briton, traveling in the US, might have viewed our celebration of Independence Day. It ...

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Old 07-05-2019, 09:16 AM
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Default Independence Day and Britons

I seriously wonder just how a Briton, traveling in the US, might have viewed our celebration of Independence Day.

It is really not quite as cut-and-dried as it might initially seem.

For it is my understanding that contemporary Britons, for the most part, believe that countries, once they mature, should break with their mother countries--much as adolescents, once they become young adults, break with their parents.

On the other hand, there was a lot of blood shed (on both sides) over this breakup.

Thoughts?
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Old 07-05-2019, 12:36 PM
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Default Re: Independence Day and Britons

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
I seriously wonder just how a Briton, traveling in the US, might have viewed our celebration of Independence Day.

It is really not quite as cut-and-dried as it might initially seem.

For it is my understanding that contemporary Britons, for the most part, believe that countries, once they mature, should break with their mother countries--much as adolescents, once they become young adults, break with their parents.

On the other hand, there was a lot of blood shed (on both sides) over this breakup.

Thoughts?
There's certainly been a change in British thinking that's predominately occurred since WW II and there's underlying reason, I believe, for that change.

After WW II, with the creation of the United Nations, the previously held beliefs in the Right of Conquest was formally replaced with the Right of Self-Determination and that has applied in all cases with the exception of a few cases of blatant hypocrisy.

Prior to WW II Britain remained a colonial nation as opposed to a nation supporting self-determination of territories under it's administrative and military control. The "Americas" were a case of colonial government where the Crown of England refused to acknowledge any Right of Self-Determination by the people in the American colonies. It was the "Might make right" tyrannical policy of the "Divine Right of Conquest" that England attempted to impose upon the American colonies.

Today's philosophy of "Self-Determination" has replaced the old "Might Makes Right" (it doesn't) behind the "Divine Right of Conquest" (that was never a right but instead a tyrannical imposition of power). Today those in Britain were raised with this newer understanding of history and don't typically find anything wrong with the American Revolution.

Of note in Britain George Washington was recently ranked as the greatest military leader to ever oppose the British and he's highly honored and respected among British historians and the British people.
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Old 07-05-2019, 01:03 PM
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Default Re: Independence Day and Britons

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
I seriously wonder just how a Briton, traveling in the US, might have viewed our celebration of Independence Day.

It is really not quite as cut-and-dried as it might initially seem.

For it is my understanding that contemporary Britons, for the most part, believe that countries, once they mature, should break with their mother countries--much as adolescents, once they become young adults, break with their parents.

On the other hand, there was a lot of blood shed (on both sides) over this breakup.

Thoughts?
Having a Brexit of our own, so to speak, before it was fashionable. But it's something that I would think modern day Brits would just shrug and say 'enjoy', but then again, all the animosity over Scotland's attempt at exit, is not so well received.....
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Old 07-05-2019, 04:19 PM
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Default Re: Independence Day and Britons

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
There's certainly been a change in British thinking that's predominately Of note in Britain George Washington was recently ranked as the greatest military leader to ever oppose the British and he's highly honored and respected among British historians and the British people.
That is quite interesting.

Thanks.
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Old 07-05-2019, 04:20 PM
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Default Re: Independence Day and Britons

On another forum, someone said that a person had asked a Brit if they have a fourth of July.

The latter wisecracked: "No, we go directly from the third to the fifth."

Well, ask a silly question...
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Old 07-05-2019, 11:32 PM
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Default Re: Independence Day and Britons

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
For it is my understanding that contemporary Britons, for the most part, believe that countries, once they mature, should break with their mother countries--much as adolescents, once they become young adults, break with their parents.
I think they may believe that ONLY because that's what happened to THEM...

The British Empire didn't "free" any countries from their rule...Those countries decided to end the rule themselves...In some of those cases, against the empire's wishes...So, to save face, the people from Great Britain are NOW saying "They should break free" when, if they wanted to face reality, they should be saying, "We should've let them go long before they felt the need to `break free`"...
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Old 07-05-2019, 11:45 PM
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Default Re: Independence Day and Britons

Australians and Canadians always champion America as kick- ass great in commentary that I see including this past 4th.
The UK are sort of split by the same politics as us and comment on our status freely and frequently.
I think some of them channel Americanism quite naturally because it evolved from their own precepts of the rights of man etc. so we beat them at their own game and they relish in it because culturally they see us as their progeny.
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