Political Wrinkles  

Go Back   Political Wrinkles > General Forum > Open Discussion
Register FAQDonate PW Store PW Trivia Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Open Discussion Discuss Healthcare: a "human right"? at the General Forum; In last night's Democratic debate, someone (I forget just who it was) declared that healthcare is "a human right." I ...

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2019, 12:19 PM
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tennessee
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,745
Thanks: 11,056
Thanked 4,110 Times in 2,670 Posts
Default Healthcare: a "human right"?

In last night's Democratic debate, someone (I forget just who it was) declared that healthcare is "a human right."

I have heard this previously.

But this begs the question: Even if it is true--and I have some serious reservations about it--does a "human" right trump a constitutional right?

In other words, if it could be positively demonstrated that healthcare is, indeed, a human right--but not that it is a constitutional right--which is really of greater importance?

Please discuss.
__________________
"In his second inaugural address, [Franklin D.] Roosevelt sought 'unimagined power' to enforce the 'proper subordination' of private power to public power. He got it…"—George Will, July 8, 2007

Last edited by pjohns; 06-28-2019 at 12:39 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2019, 12:25 PM
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,048
Thanks: 9,594
Thanked 7,861 Times in 4,707 Posts
Default Re: Healthcare: a "human ritht"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
In last night's Democratic debate, someone (I forget just who it was) declared that healthcare is "a human right."

I have heard this previously.

But this begs the question: Even if it is true--and I have some serious reservations about it--does a "human" right trump a constitutional right?

In other words, if it could be positively demonstrated that healthcare is, indeed, a human right--but not that it is a constitutional right--which is really of greater importance?

Please discuss.
Even if healthcare is a human right, which is questionable, someone else paying for your right obviously isn't
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to jimbo For This Useful Post:
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2019, 01:06 PM
cnredd's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Gender: Male
Posts: 54,671
Thanks: 2,187
Thanked 34,639 Times in 19,981 Posts
Default Re: Healthcare: a "human right"?

Quote:
But this begs the question: Even if it is true--and I have some serious reservations about it--does a "human" right trump a constitutional right?
Absolutely not...

Under the Constitution, there has been ZERO "human rights" passed by Congress, ratified by the states, and signed by a president...
__________________
"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to cnredd For This Useful Post:
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2019, 02:31 PM
Manitou's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas
Gender: Male
Posts: 20,024
Thanks: 461
Thanked 6,302 Times in 4,552 Posts
Default Re: Healthcare: a "human right"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
In last night's Democratic debate, someone (I forget just who it was) declared that healthcare is "a human right."

I have heard this previously.

But this begs the question: Even if it is true--and I have some serious reservations about it--does a "human" right trump a constitutional right?

In other words, if it could be positively demonstrated that healthcare is, indeed, a human right--but not that it is a constitutional right--which is really of greater importance?

Please discuss.
A human right is like an unalienable right, and the human right does not need to be in the Constitution, and is independent of it. Healthcare is something that you can seek, but nobody is under any obligation to give it to you.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Manitou For This Useful Post:
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2019, 04:55 PM
GetAClue's Avatar
Scholar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Northern Ohio
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,275
Thanks: 6,135
Thanked 3,997 Times in 2,330 Posts
Default Re: Healthcare: a "human right"?

This yet another attempt by the left to change the language to support their narrative. If they get people believing that they are entitled to the labor of someone else, those people begin to believe it without ever stopping to consider what a "human right" really is.

According to our founders, a right is something that you are born with and bestowed upon you by the creator, i.e. God. If one were to examine the enumerated rights in the Bill of Rights, they would notice that every right listed is inherited at birth and not bestowed upon them by a government. They do not require anyone to provide anything for you.

Somehow this concept seems to escape those on the left.
__________________
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead - Thomas Paine

A lie doesn't become truth, a wrong doesn't become right, and Evil doesn't become good, just because it is accepted by the majority. - Booker T Washington
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to GetAClue For This Useful Post:
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06-28-2019, 06:03 PM
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,048
Thanks: 9,594
Thanked 7,861 Times in 4,707 Posts
Default Re: Healthcare: a "human right"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
In last night's Democratic debate, someone (I forget just who it was) declared that healthcare is "a human right."

I have heard this previously.

But this begs the question: Even if it is true--and I have some serious reservations about it--does a "human" right trump a constitutional right?

In other words, if it could be positively demonstrated that healthcare is, indeed, a human right--but not that it is a constitutional right--which is really of greater importance?

Please discuss.
I believe the 9th was written to cover situations such as this.

Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jimbo For This Useful Post:
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2019, 12:23 AM
Gordon Shumway's Avatar
guitarist
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,876
Thanks: 2,199
Thanked 3,454 Times in 2,043 Posts
Default Re: Healthcare: a "human right"?

human right; inalienable right; constitutional right.
doesn’t matter what name you give it.
there is absolutely no right of any kind in which the government (taxpayers) is required to provide the material goods to its citizens.
if the government is required to provide the material goods of rights then when can i expect my government issue gun to arrive in the mail?
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Gordon Shumway For This Useful Post:
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2019, 08:59 AM
mr wonder's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Virginia
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,793
Thanks: 10,247
Thanked 6,385 Times in 4,352 Posts
Default Re: Healthcare: a "human right"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manitou View Post
A human right is like an unalienable right, and the human right does not need to be in the Constitution, and is independent of it. Healthcare is something that you can seek, but nobody is under any obligation to give it to you.
yep
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
This yet another attempt by the left to change the language to support their narrative. If they get people believing that they are entitled to the labor of someone else, those people begin to believe it without ever stopping to consider what a "human right" really is.
According to our founders, a right is something that you are born with and bestowed upon you by the creator, i.e. God. If one were to examine the enumerated rights in the Bill of Rights, they would notice that every right listed is inherited at birth and not bestowed upon them by a government. They do not require anyone to provide anything for you.
Somehow this concept seems to escape those on the left.
yep yep

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
In last night's Democratic debate, someone (I forget just who it was) declared that healthcare is "a human right."
I have heard this previously.
But this begs the question: Even if it is true--and I have some serious reservations about it--does a "human" right trump a constitutional right?
In other words, if it could be positively demonstrated that healthcare is, indeed, a human right--but not that it is a constitutional right--which is really of greater importance?
Please discuss.

The main thing the constitution protects is the freedom of people to pursue their lives without undue government involvement or control. SO it outlines the national governments limited role in human affairs.
As a basis for the concept of freedoms and the governments role it recognizes "human rights" or inalienable rights.
In the preamble say the federal government was formed to:
establish Justice,
insure domestic tranquility,
provide for the common defense,
promote the general Welfare,
and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity,


If folks are honest, those goals have to seen in the light of the LIMITED amount of powers granted the federal government. And the inalienable rights... human rights... God given rights ... freedoms mentioned in the Declaration of independence and other founding docs.
the declaration ... which is one of the founding docs agreed to by all the state gov'ts.... is IMO a legally, and certainly conceptually guiding document, to the concept of "human rights"
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed....
I'm not sure how "health CARE" could honestly be construed as a government responsibility.
However the right of each individual to have unhampered legal right to USE ...or NOT use... the "health CARE" of their choice would be a God given right the gov't should protect.
(as long as it doesn't overtly kill/harm someone else).

The difference is
Government provision of health care, vs gov't protection of people's health care options.
As someone mentioned, a right to gun doesn't mean the gov't buys everyone a gun.
__________________
Hope is the dream of the waking man.
Aristotle

For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
Job 14:6-8
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mr wonder For This Useful Post:
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2019, 09:04 AM
mr wonder's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Virginia
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,793
Thanks: 10,247
Thanked 6,385 Times in 4,352 Posts
Default Re: Healthcare: a "human right"?

Folks on the left love to change definitions to suit the current vogue policy agenda.
And then hammer the public mind with slogans and half baked, but heart felt, pleas to "change" in order to save the FILL IN the BLANK.
They rarely want to rationally discus the policies as a matter of logical principals, or seriously consider the negative consequences of their proposals.
Much less the historical, legal or constitutional basis.

Seems to many on the left blindly embrace their in vogue agendas as the highest good and the "FILL IN the BLANK" must be saved!
And everything opposed to the agendas are just "hate filled", and/or stupid obstacles to the agendas utopian vision.

However, to the establishment players... gov't and corporate.... the agendas are nearly always simply a path to more money... and control of the public .
__________________
Hope is the dream of the waking man.
Aristotle

For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
Job 14:6-8

Last edited by mr wonder; 06-29-2019 at 09:15 AM..
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to mr wonder For This Useful Post:
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2019, 12:57 AM
saltwn's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Esto perpetua
Posts: 80,813
Thanks: 55,293
Thanked 26,207 Times in 18,745 Posts
Send a message via AIM to saltwn Send a message via MSN to saltwn Send a message via Yahoo to saltwn
Default Re: Healthcare: a "human right"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
In last night's Democratic debate, someone (I forget just who it was) declared that healthcare is "a human right."

I have heard this previously.

But this begs the question: Even if it is true--and I have some serious reservations about it--does a "human" right trump a constitutional right?

In other words, if it could be positively demonstrated that healthcare is, indeed, a human right--but not that it is a constitutional right--which is really of greater importance?

Please discuss.
Well, Bernie said that for sure. Don't know which night you are speaking of.
Here's what I think-
Our country should have health insurance for all. However they do it is up for debate, but in this great country that spends so much on the wealthy, we should protect the weak.
__________________
"The President's not a racist." He just plays one on TV".~ Emsley Wyatt
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
healthcare, human right, human ritht

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0