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Open Discussion Discuss Immigration Issues - Open to all opinions at the General Forum; There are so many things going on related to immigration and/or illegal immigrations that can be addressed from both the ...

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Old 06-22-2019, 07:19 AM
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Default Immigration Issues - Open to all opinions

There are so many things going on related to immigration and/or illegal immigrations that can be addressed from both the "right" and the "left" where possible common ground, or at least a common understanding, can be reached. I thought this would be a good place for those discussions.

I'm going to jump in with one issue that isn't being addressed but I believe it should be.

A statute of limitations on violations of our immigration laws. Most of our laws do have a statute of limitations. Rape, robbery, and many other crimes against person(s) or property can't be prosecuted after an established number of years. Our immigration laws that prohibit unlawful entry into the United States, that don't violate the rights of persons or property, don't have a statute of limitations and that makes no sense.

Yes, people may initially enter the US illegally but over time they establish deep roots in America. In many cases they marry an American citizen or they have children that are American citizens, They find jobs and support our nation with the taxes they pay locally, to the state, and to the federal government.

When I look back historically the very first naturalization law, the Naturalization Act of 1790, granted US citizenship after two years of residency in the United States. Based upon that historical precedent I would suggest that the statute of limitations for illegally entering the United States should be established at two years of residency. Once a person has been in the US "illegally" for two years, if they've not been apprehended and charged during that time, they should no longer be prosecuted and should be granted permanent residency.
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Old 06-22-2019, 08:47 AM
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Default Re: Immigration Issues - Open to all opinions

Wonderful idea for open borders Democrats. Abolish ICE so there is no interior enforcement of immigration laws. Refuse to reform asylum laws or increase the number of judges to hear cases, meanwhile so-called immigrants are allowed to establish residence in the US. And of course refuse to secure the Southern border. All that is needed is a statute of limitations to realize the goal of no border, no wall, no USA at all.

Statutes of limitation refer to a particular criminal act committed in the past. The illegal alien continues to offend every day they live in the US. Oh but wait, we will just pervert the statute of limitations to give the illegal special privileges to carry out ongoing criminal activity.

Working illegally, tax fraud, collecting welfare benefits illegally, driving without a license or insurance are ubiquitous in the illegal alien community, all are considered law abiding when committed by an illegal alien. Certainly we should add in a guarantee of permanent residency to a population that shows such respect for our laws.
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Old 06-22-2019, 10:48 AM
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Default Re: Immigration Issues - Open to all opinions

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Wonderful idea for open borders Democrats. Abolish ICE so there is no interior enforcement of immigration laws. Refuse to reform asylum laws or increase the number of judges to hear cases, meanwhile so-called immigrants are allowed to establish residence in the US. And of course refuse to secure the Southern border. All that is needed is a statute of limitations to realize the goal of no border, no wall, no USA at all.

Statutes of limitation refer to a particular criminal act committed in the past. The illegal alien continues to offend every day they live in the US. Oh but wait, we will just pervert the statute of limitations to give the illegal special privileges to carry out ongoing criminal activity.

Working illegally, tax fraud, collecting welfare benefits illegally, driving without a license or insurance are ubiquitous in the illegal alien community, all are considered law abiding when committed by an illegal alien. Certainly we should add in a guarantee of permanent residency to a population that shows such respect for our laws.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, we can't addresses everything all at once. Open borders, asylum, securing the border, immigration judges, etc. all have their place in the discussion but let's focus on a key issue that you covered right at the beginning.

A statute of limitations does not imply the law is ignored. In fact just the opposite takes place because law enforcement now has an urgency to enforce the law, bringing those that have violated the law, to justice before the statute or limitations take effect. Contrary to reducing the enforcement by ICE it makes ICE enforcement more urgent and necessary. ICE needs to have the resources necessary to find, arrest, and begin prosecution of those that illegally enter the United States within the "two year" limit I've proposed.

This was the second highest priority for enforcement under the Obama administration that went along with locating and deporting criminal aliens that have harmed the American people while being in the United States (legally or illegally). ICE had focus under the Obama Administration and it used it's resources to the best possible advantage in finding those that had illegally entered the United States within the previous two years.

What we didn't have was the wasting of ICE enforcement resources to tear families apart, a truly unamerican and unjust activity if ever there was one, where the targeted "illegal" immigrant had been in the US for five, ten, and even twenty years and had truly become an American in all ways except on paper.

So ICE is very important, in fact ICE is more important, when a statute of limitations exist because ICE only has a limited amount of time to identify, arrest, and begin prosecution of those that have violated the law.
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Old 06-22-2019, 11:00 AM
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Default Re: Immigration Issues - Open to all opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
There are so many things going on related to immigration and/or illegal immigrations that can be addressed from both the "right" and the "left" where possible common ground, or at least a common understanding, can be reached. I thought this would be a good place for those discussions.

I'm going to jump in with one issue that isn't being addressed but I believe it should be.

A statute of limitations on violations of our immigration laws. Most of our laws do have a statute of limitations. Rape, robbery, and many other crimes against person(s) or property can't be prosecuted after an established number of years. Our immigration laws that prohibit unlawful entry into the United States, that don't violate the rights of persons or property, don't have a statute of limitations and that makes no sense.

Yes, people may initially enter the US illegally but over time they establish deep roots in America. In many cases they marry an American citizen or they have children that are American citizens, They find jobs and support our nation with the taxes they pay locally, to the state, and to the federal government.

When I look back historically the very first naturalization law, the Naturalization Act of 1790, granted US citizenship after two years of residency in the United States. Based upon that historical precedent I would suggest that the statute of limitations for illegally entering the United States should be established at two years of residency. Once a person has been in the US "illegally" for two years, if they've not been apprehended and charged during that time, they should no longer be prosecuted and should be granted permanent residency.
Yes, those people who are for illegal squatters' rights need to chew a bag of prunes. What's next? Any ass hole here or there who squats for a certain time on some person's property without the owner's knowledge suddenly becomes the legal owner of the squatted property, eh?
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Old 06-22-2019, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: Immigration Issues - Open to all opinions

Having addressed that the importance of ICE increases if a statute of limitations is created let's look at the following issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Refuse to reform asylum laws...
I'm not exactly sure what "reform" is being addressed but there are certainly things that can be changed in the law regarding asylum. In a sense we need to address this as the providing "humanitarian sanctuary" for foreigners because it falls into two categories. Refugees that arrive at a US port of entry and asylum seekers that are already in the United States when they apply for Asylum.

REFUGEES
Quote:
Refugee Act of 1980 - =Title I: Purpose= - Declares the purposes of this Act to be to provide a permanent and systematic procedure for the admission of refugees of special humanitarian concern to the United States and to provide comprehensive and uniform provisions for the effective resettlement and absorption of those refugees who are admitted.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/96th-c...enate-bill/643

The law specifies certain specific concerns that include fear of "persecution on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion" all of which would apply when facing persecution by criminal gangs because just being a law abiding person makes you a victim of gang violence and persecution.

Quote:
The Refugee Act of 1980 created The Federal Refugee Resettlement Program to provide for the effective resettlement of refugees and to assist them to achieve economic self-sufficiency as quickly as possible after arrival in the United States.

The function of the Office and its Director is to fund and administer (directly or through arrangements with other Federal agencies), in consultation with the Secretary of State,1/ programs of the Federal Government under this chapter.

(1)(A) In providing assistance under this section, the Director shall, to the extent of available appropriations,
(i) make available sufficient resources for employment training and placement in order to achieve economic self-sufficiency among refugees as quickly as possible,
(ii) provide refugees with the opportunity to acquire sufficient English language training to enable them to become effectively resettled as quickly as possible,
(iii) insure that cash assistance is made available to refugees in such a manner as not to discourage their economic self-sufficiency, in accordance with subsection (e)(2), and (iv) insure that women have the same opportunities as men to participate in training and instruction.
https://www.acf.hhs.gov/orr/resource/the-refugee-act

The list of the responsibilities of the Director of Refugee Resettlement are extensive so I won't provide all of those responsibilities. There are a few responsibilities that should be pointed out related to current refugees. First of all the number of refugees is to be calculated and appropriate measures taken to provide the number of refugee visas in advance and the funding for the services required based upon the anticipated number of refugees. The law allows for up to 270,000 refugees, plus their dependents, to enter the United States lawfully each year. 270,000 is an extremely small number of refugee immigrants based upon the US population of over 300 million. That's basically 1/10 of 1% of the US population when between 3-5 percent immigrant population can be reasonably accepted each year.

As noted Refugees have the highest priority when it comes to immigration to the United States and are the only group with laws specific to them. They are granted legal immigrations status pending the final adjudication of their application for admittance as refugees. Every refugee that arrives at the US border is supposed to be allowed to apply for refugee status and to be allowed to lawfully enter the United States based upon a reasonable fear of persecution by the government of that country or by any group in their native country.

After 150 days they can apply for a work permit and after two years they can apply for a "green card" (permanent residence and the right to work in the United States).

It's the Director's responsibility to ensure that Congress has the projected number of anticipated refugees and the funding requirements to provide for them.

In 2017 there were 340,000 illegal border crossings with as many as 80% of those being refugees that arrived at a US port of entry but were denied their right to apply as refugees. That's almost 250,000 refugees that illegally crossed the border to seek asylum because they were not allowed to apply as refugees at a port of entry.

The Director of Refugee Resettlement knew this and it was easy to determine that 2018 would follow a similar course with the number of refugees arriving at a US port of entry. With a maximum allowable number of 270,000 it would have been the Director's responsibility to identify over 250,000 anticipated refugees for 2018 but that didn't happen. Instead only about 22,000 refugees were allowed to enter which is an insult to the intent of the Refugee Act of 1980. If there's a problem with illegal immigration then the primary reason for that problem is with the Director of Refugee Resettlement not providing accurate funding requirements to Congress based upon the number of anticipated refugees that will be showing up at our border during the next fiscal year and the CBP not allowing them to apply as refugees.


ASYLUM SEEKERS
Asylum seekers are foreigners already inside of the United States. How they came to be inside of the United States, legally or by unlawfully crossing the border, doesn't matter under the law. Upon filing an application for asylum they are allowed to be lawfully in the United States pending the final adjudication of their application. Like refugees they can apply for a work permit after a short waiting period and they can apply for a green card (permanent residence and work authorization) after two years.

Asylum seekers don't receive many of the benefits provided to the refugees by the government. Instead they rely more on charities that provide many of the services they will need. Still the purpose in both cases is for them to become productive Americans as soon as is reasonably possible.

There's no limit to the number of foreigners that can apply for and receive asylum status to live and work in the United States.

SUMMARY
In both of these cases it's about lawfully being in the United States where the person can work and is not to be sent back to their native country to face persecution by government or any other group.

It's also important to allow as many refugees as possible into the United States which results in a dramatic drop in unlawful entry into the United States by refugees seeking sanctuary in the United States. This greatly reduces the strain on CBP when it comes to enforce our borders because they're not chasing down someone that should have been allowed to legally enter at a US Port of Entry. CBP can then focus on the "bad guys" that are trying to illegally enter the United States.
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"I always had a rule, if the White House is dirty on the inside, it's dirty on the outside." ShivaTD

Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.

Last edited by ShivaTD; 06-22-2019 at 03:12 PM..
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Old 06-22-2019, 03:28 PM
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Default Re: Immigration Issues - Open to all opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
There are so many things going on related to immigration and/or illegal immigrations that can be addressed from both the "right" and the "left" where possible common ground, or at least a common understanding, can be reached. I thought this would be a good place for those discussions.

I'm going to jump in with one issue that isn't being addressed but I believe it should be.

A statute of limitations on violations of our immigration laws. Most of our laws do have a statute of limitations. Rape, robbery, and many other crimes against person(s) or property can't be prosecuted after an established number of years. Our immigration laws that prohibit unlawful entry into the United States, that don't violate the rights of persons or property, don't have a statute of limitations and that makes no sense.

Yes, people may initially enter the US illegally but over time they establish deep roots in America. In many cases they marry an American citizen or they have children that are American citizens, They find jobs and support our nation with the taxes they pay locally, to the state, and to the federal government.

When I look back historically the very first naturalization law, the Naturalization Act of 1790, granted US citizenship after two years of residency in the United States. Based upon that historical precedent I would suggest that the statute of limitations for illegally entering the United States should be established at two years of residency. Once a person has been in the US "illegally" for two years, if they've not been apprehended and charged during that time, they should no longer be prosecuted and should be granted permanent residency.
I'm not absolutely sure, but I believe it's illegal to cross the border illegally, but also to remain here illegally. So that statute of limitations claim you are trying to make would start today. So the point is mute.
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Old 06-22-2019, 04:23 PM
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Default Re: Immigration Issues - Open to all opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
There are so many things going on related to immigration and/or illegal immigrations that can be addressed from both the "right" and the "left" where possible common ground, or at least a common understanding, can be reached. I thought this would be a good place for those discussions.

I'm going to jump in with one issue that isn't being addressed but I believe it should be.

A statute of limitations on violations of our immigration laws. Most of our laws do have a statute of limitations. Rape, robbery, and many other crimes against person(s) or property can't be prosecuted after an established number of years. Our immigration laws that prohibit unlawful entry into the United States, that don't violate the rights of persons or property, don't have a statute of limitations and that makes no sense.

Yes, people may initially enter the US illegally but over time they establish deep roots in America. In many cases they marry an American citizen or they have children that are American citizens, They find jobs and support our nation with the taxes they pay locally, to the state, and to the federal government.

When I look back historically the very first naturalization law, the Naturalization Act of 1790, granted US citizenship after two years of residency in the United States. Based upon that historical precedent I would suggest that the statute of limitations for illegally entering the United States should be established at two years of residency. Once a person has been in the US "illegally" for two years, if they've not been apprehended and charged during that time, they should no longer be prosecuted and should be granted permanent residency.
So if an illegal immigrant manages to dodge ICE or any law enforcement for X period of time, they are home free?

Do you honestly think this is an idea to be proud of? How about an illegal immigrant try that in a country like Mexico or Uzbekistan, and see how well that goes.
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Old 06-22-2019, 05:57 PM
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Default Re: Immigration Issues - Open to all opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
There are so many things going on related to immigration and/or illegal immigrations that can be addressed from both the "right" and the "left" where possible common ground, or at least a common understanding, can be reached. I thought this would be a good place for those discussions.

I'm going to jump in with one issue that isn't being addressed but I believe it should be.

A statute of limitations on violations of our immigration laws. Most of our laws do have a statute of limitations. Rape, robbery, and many other crimes against person(s) or property can't be prosecuted after an established number of years. Our immigration laws that prohibit unlawful entry into the United States, that don't violate the rights of persons or property, don't have a statute of limitations and that makes no sense.

Yes, people may initially enter the US illegally but over time they establish deep roots in America. In many cases they marry an American citizen or they have children that are American citizens, They find jobs and support our nation with the taxes they pay locally, to the state, and to the federal government.

When I look back historically the very first naturalization law, the Naturalization Act of 1790, granted US citizenship after two years of residency in the United States. Based upon that historical precedent I would suggest that the statute of limitations for illegally entering the United States should be established at two years of residency. Once a person has been in the US "illegally" for two years, if they've not been apprehended and charged during that time, they should no longer be prosecuted and should be granted permanent residency.
A statue of limitations for illegal immigration is only a good idea if you want more illegal immigration. Apparently you want more illegal immigration not less.
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Old 06-22-2019, 11:16 PM
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Default Re: Immigration Issues - Open to all opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD
A statute of limitations on violations of our immigration laws.
Doesn't work...At no point after they've illegally crossed the border do they become legal...

That means if they receive a paycheck a month later, then that paycheck was received illegally...and when they get paid two weeks after that, THAT paycheck was received illegally...and every paycheck after...even if it's for 10 years...

That is a CONTINUING violation...Therefore, no statute of limitations..

And that's just one example...Performing any of hundreds of things while on US soil illegally is a new violation...
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Old 06-23-2019, 07:23 AM
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Default Re: Immigration Issues - Open to all opinions

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
So if an illegal immigrant manages to dodge ICE or any law enforcement for X period of time, they are home free?

Do you honestly think this is an idea to be proud of? How about an illegal immigrant try that in a country like Mexico or Uzbekistan, and see how well that goes.
That's the argument the left tries to make with DACA.
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