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Open Discussion Discuss The incendiary rhetoric of both Biden and Trump at the General Forum; Originally Posted by pjohns Interestingly, we are almost the same age; so, presumably, we have fairly similar memories. I am ...

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Old 06-13-2019, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: The incendiary rhetoric of both Biden and Trump

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Interestingly, we are almost the same age; so, presumably, we have fairly similar memories.

I am not speaking about mere "campaigns." This is not a "campaign" year.

As for a lack of civility after JFK (who was assassinated in 1963), the fact is that Ronald Reagan and Tip O'Neill--a conservative Republican and a liberal Democrat--got along very well, according to all that I am told.

But I really do not wish to limit this to just Donald Trump. I also spoke of the nastiness of Joe Biden. Somehow, that seems to be entirely lost upon those who believe that nothing critical should ever be said about Donald Trump.

Well, I call balls and strikes as I see them--and not according to the possible effects thereof.
In other words, I much prefer critical analysis over blatant partisanship.

Does anyone really have a problem with that principle?
I call strikes as I see them as well. Here is how I see it today. The reason this seems an issue different from the historical norm is the media has made an issue of it. I don't let media hyperbole blur my view.


We have the most transparent and blatantly honest President in our recent history. He is Like Andy Jackson who called strikes as he saw them as well. We know exactly what he thinks of anyone or, any issue, he encounters and his citizens know it in both reality and real time. Remember, Jackson was liked by the media and Washington on about the same terms as THE Donald.
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Old 06-13-2019, 06:13 PM
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Default Re: The incendiary rhetoric of both Biden and Trump

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The reason this seems an issue different from the historical norm is the media has made an issue of it. I don't let media hyperbole blur my view.
You make a fair point here. The media--most of them, anyway--are out to get President Trump. (Even Ted Koppel--not exactly a conservative--has said as much.)

But I still consider it to be much different from the historical norm (within my own lifetime, anyway).

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
We have the most transparent and blatantly honest President in our recent history. He is Like Andy Jackson who called strikes as he saw them as well. We know exactly what he thinks of anyone or, any issue, he encounters and his citizens know it in both reality and real time. Remember, Jackson was liked by the media and Washington on about the same terms as THE Donald.
The comparison to Andrew Jackson is certainly fair: Both presidents were certainly despised by The Elite.

I voted for Donald Trump in 2016. And I will almost certainly do so again, in 2020.

But that does not mean that I cannot criticize him on occasion, as though he represented The Second Coming.

One more thing--and this is certainly not a mere afterthought: Why do you not address the nastiness of Joe Biden, which I mentioned equally?

Do you really believe that all that really matters is the fact that I do not march in perfect lockstep with the president--and all else, therefore, may safely be just ignored?
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:25 PM
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Default Re: The incendiary rhetoric of both Biden and Trump

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
You make a fair point here. The media--most of them, anyway--are out to get President Trump. (Even Ted Koppel--not exactly a conservative--has said as much.)

But I still consider it to be much different from the historical norm (within my own lifetime, anyway).



The comparison to Andrew Jackson is certainly fair: Both presidents were certainly despised by The Elite.

I voted for Donald Trump in 2016. And I will almost certainly do so again, in 2020.

But that does not mean that I cannot criticize him on occasion, as though he represented The Second Coming.

One more thing--and this is certainly not a mere afterthought: Why do you not address the nastiness of Joe Biden, which I mentioned equally?

Do you really believe that all that really matters is the fact that I do not march in perfect lockstep with the president--and all else, therefore, may safely be just ignored?
First, I have not once mentioned that you must do anything, about THE Donald. Much less walk in lock step. That is a silly comment. The discussion is about the incendiary rhetoric. And so were my comments. I thought I was clear about that. More than once.

You are welcome to criticize Trump, I do so myself. And frankly, I could care less what Obama's toady, Joe Biden, says. This be it nasty, plagiaristic, banal or just stupid.

Back to the subject, I wish the combatants in our election process were more civilized but they are not. Only seldom have they ever been civilized and polite, to my recall, and to the pages of history. We can agree it would be nice if things were different. They ain't. However, I'm not sure that complaining about it is of any utility.
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Old 06-14-2019, 08:25 AM
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Default Re: The incendiary rhetoric of both Biden and Trump

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
You make a fair point here. The media--most of them, anyway--are out to get President Trump. (Even Ted Koppel--not exactly a conservative--has said as much.)

But I still consider it to be much different from the historical norm (within my own lifetime, anyway).



The comparison to Andrew Jackson is certainly fair: Both presidents were certainly despised by The Elite.

I voted for Donald Trump in 2016. And I will almost certainly do so again, in 2020.

But that does not mean that I cannot criticize him on occasion, as though he represented The Second Coming.

One more thing--and this is certainly not a mere afterthought: Why do you not address the nastiness of Joe Biden, which I mentioned equally?

Do you really believe that all that really matters is the fact that I do not march in perfect lockstep with the president--and all else, therefore, may safely be just ignored?
By all means criticize Trump when he deserves it for policy blunders. For example, he hasn't pushed McConnell hard enough to reform asylum laws removing the incentive to illegally cross our border.

There has been nastiness in our Presidential political discourse since Jefferson attacked members of Washington's administration for being "ill informed" that was considered outrageous for the time. That was nothing compared to the rhetoric of Adam's the incumbent versus Jefferson where it was claimed the streets would run with blood if the wrong candidate won.

Political parties have always sniped at the opposition but at least in my lifetime there hasn't been a major party given over to blind, hate filled Resistance like the Democrats are. You are correct that not much is made of Biden's dishonest nastiness as the rabid hatred for Trump overwhelms any kind of critical thinking.

Republicans ran courtly candidates in McCain and Romney only to see them destroyed by Obama's Chicago style campaigns of smear and fear. Trump seems to relish the bare knuckle brawl Democrats thought they has secured for their exclusive use. Worse, Trump has demonstrated an ability to leverage this style into electoral success prompting Democrats like like Biden to make appeals to moral standards they never practiced in an effort to return to the former status quo.
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Old 06-14-2019, 08:38 AM
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Default Re: The incendiary rhetoric of both Biden and Trump

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First, I have not once mentioned that you must do anything, about THE Donald. Much less walk in lock step. That is a silly comment. The discussion is about the incendiary rhetoric. And so were my comments. I thought I was clear about that. More than once.

You are welcome to criticize Trump, I do so myself. And frankly, I could care less what Obama's toady, Joe Biden, says. This be it nasty, plagiaristic, banal or just stupid.

Back to the subject, I wish the combatants in our election process were more civilized but they are not. Only seldom have they ever been civilized and polite, to my recall, and to the pages of history. We can agree it would be nice if things were different. They ain't. However, I'm not sure that complaining about it is of any utility.
This is not merely "our election process" that we are talking about. Rather, it is how the president conducts himself while in office--and not merely while campaigning.

As for Joe Biden, I will agree that he was Barack Obama's "toady." (That is really a good description of him. He appears to have no core values.)

But I still think that he is quite relevant today, as he appears to be headed for the Democratic nomination for the presidency.
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Old 06-14-2019, 09:24 AM
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Default Re: The incendiary rhetoric of both Biden and Trump

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Political parties have always sniped at the opposition but at least in my lifetime there hasn't been a major party given over to blind, hate filled Resistance like the Democrats are.
The so-called "Resistance" is, indeed filled with hatred--and fueled by it.

I have pointed this out previously (in another thread).

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Republicans ran courtly candidates in McCain and Romney only to see them destroyed by Obama's Chicago style campaigns of smear and fear. Trump seems to relish the bare knuckle brawl Democrats thought they has secured for their exclusive use. Worse, Trump has demonstrated an ability to leverage this style into electoral success prompting Democrats like like Biden to make appeals to moral standards they never practiced in an effort to return to the former status quo.
John McCain was destined to lose, I believe, as many people felt a sense of guilt over our never before having had an African-American president.

As for Mitt Romney, he was not merely polite (which, I believe, is a major plus); rather, he was milquetoast. And that is definitely not a plus.

Some people seem to think that the Republicans should fight fire with fire. But that is not my own view.

Rather, I think that it should be fought with water.
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Old 06-14-2019, 10:52 AM
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Default Re: The incendiary rhetoric of both Biden and Trump

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The so-called "Resistance" is, indeed filled with hatred--and fueled by it.

I have pointed this out previously (in another thread).



John McCain was destined to lose, I believe, as many people felt a sense of guilt over our never before having had an African-American president.

As for Mitt Romney, he was not merely polite (which, I believe, is a major plus); rather, he was milquetoast. And that is definitely not a plus.

Some people seem to think that the Republicans should fight fire with fire. But that is not my own view.

Rather, I think that it should be fought with water.
Water doesn't put out grease fires, it spreads them just like taking the so-called high road just encourages Democrat smear campaigns. Failure to answer any of the accusatory questions posed in an endless stream results in cover up accusations but chasing endless, repetitive investigations allows the opposition to set the agenda.
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Old 06-14-2019, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: The incendiary rhetoric of both Biden and Trump

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Water doesn't put out grease fires, it spreads them just like taking the so-called high road just encourages Democrat smear campaigns. Failure to answer any of the accusatory questions posed in an endless stream results in cover up accusations but chasing endless, repetitive investigations allows the opposition to set the agenda.
I really do not see just how taking the high road "encourages Democrat smear campaigns."

Note: My favorite president, within my lifetime, was (easily) Ronald Reagan. As for Number Two, it is really a very close call: Dwight Eisenhower and George W. Bush are just a sliver apart here.

And none of these got down in the gutter--or was even snarky...
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Old 06-14-2019, 07:15 PM
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Default Re: The incendiary rhetoric of both Biden and Trump

The MSM makes up a lot of bs they claim Trump said.

CNN, MSNBC, and various political and celebrity personalities ran with this one:

Quote:
U.S. President Donald Trump said: "Kim Jong Un is smarter and would make a better President than Sleepy Joe Biden."
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tr...jong-un-biden/
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Old 06-15-2019, 12:21 PM
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Default Re: The incendiary rhetoric of both Biden and Trump

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I am very disappointed in the third-grade-type taunts of both President Trump and former Vice-President (and now presidential candidate) Joe Biden, toward each other.

Here is just a sampling of them:

Joe Biden is "a low-IQ person."--Donald Trump, speaking of Joe Biden.

Donald Trump "does everything to separate and frighten people."--Joe Biden, speaking of Donald Trump.

Joe Biden is "a loser."--Donald Trump, speaking of Joe Biden.

Donald Trump is "literally an existential threat."--Joe Biden, speaking of Donald Trump.

I could go on and on; but you surely get the point...
I find a significant difference between the two.

Donald Trump's attacks are simply nasty personal attacks without any foundation.

Joe Biden's attacks are based upon the opinions of experts.

Donald Trump has been identified by experts in national security as being an existential threat to the United States.

Donald Trump's rhetoric is based upon generating the fear of victimization in people and dividing the nation.
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