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Open Discussion Discuss President Trump and tariffs at the General Forum; I think that a good case can be made that tariffs are a necessary evil--especially against China--but I am a ...

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Old 05-31-2019, 06:29 PM
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Default President Trump and tariffs

I think that a good case can be made that tariffs are a necessary evil--especially against China--but I am a bit disappointed by President Trump's declaration that he is "a tariff man."

It is one thing to say that, under the circumstances, tariffs may be the appropriate way to go--no better way is evident--but it is quite another to revel in tariffs, as though they were an inherently good thing.

It would be well, I believe, to distinguish between the two.

Comments?
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Old 05-31-2019, 07:36 PM
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Default Re: President Trump and tariffs

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
I think that a good case can be made that tariffs are a necessary evil--especially against China--but I am a bit disappointed by President Trump's declaration that he is "a tariff man."

It is one thing to say that, under the circumstances, tariffs may be the appropriate way to go--no better way is evident--but it is quite another to revel in tariffs, as though they were an inherently good thing.

It would be well, I believe, to distinguish between the two.

Comments?
a tariff war which is what we have is historically a bad thing. We've been convinced they were good before and turned out we were wrong.
but never say never.
the way this one is done is a bit odd if not illegal? tying tariffs with immigration ...
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Old 05-31-2019, 08:12 PM
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Default Re: President Trump and tariffs

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
a tariff war which is what we have is historically a bad thing. We've been convinced they were good before and turned out we were wrong.
but never say never.
the way this one is done is a bit odd if not illegal? tying tariffs with immigration ...
If Trump implements these blanket tariffs, and it does the intended job of harming the Mexican economy, won't some of those newly unemployed workers try to immigrate to the US for work? Sounds to me like this plan likely will increase immigration, legal and illegal.
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:01 PM
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Default Re: President Trump and tariffs

Nothing any administration has done has worked. This is different.

That doesn't mean it will work but repeating the same approach hoping for a better outcome is called insanity.

I cannot predict what you profess won't happen. but you cannot promise it will. Tariffs can bring the governments together for talks. They do not guarantee the best outcomes. However, the situation at our southern border MUST change.
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:41 PM
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Default Re: President Trump and tariffs

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Originally Posted by WallyWager View Post
If Trump implements these blanket tariffs, and it does the intended job of harming the Mexican economy, won't some of those newly unemployed workers try to immigrate to the US for work? Sounds to me like this plan likely will increase immigration, legal and illegal.
Good point and Mexican immigration here is at a net minus something. Plus they have slowed down Guetamalan emmigration through their country with new policies. The amount is still high I admit but I don't see how punishing Mexico will help.
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Old 05-31-2019, 10:45 PM
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Default Re: President Trump and tariffs

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Nothing any administration has done has worked. This is different.

That doesn't mean it will work but repeating the same approach hoping for a better outcome is called insanity.

I cannot predict what you profess won't happen. but you cannot promise it will. Tariffs can bring the governments together for talks. They do not guarantee the best outcomes. However, the situation at our southern border MUST change.
Trump should have had a plan in place long before these people started flooding the border. He admitted verbally they were on their way and he did nothing but stoke up his voters at rallies with build the wall bullsht. He's still doing it and it's a disaster.
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Old 06-01-2019, 08:22 AM
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Default Re: President Trump and tariffs

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
I think that a good case can be made that tariffs are a necessary evil--especially against China--but I am a bit disappointed by President Trump's declaration that he is "a tariff man."

It is one thing to say that, under the circumstances, tariffs may be the appropriate way to go--no better way is evident--but it is quite another to revel in tariffs, as though they were an inherently good thing.

It would be well, I believe, to distinguish between the two.

Comments?
Tariffs impose an additional cost on the consumer. They are never paid for by the country providing the commodities. They have a limited purpose but the results are always the same. The consumer pays more for the goods.

China isn't being harmed financially by Trump's tariffs because China is the only world supplier of the commodities that the tariffs are being imposed upon. We're purchasing the same amount of goods from China at the same price and then the US consumers are paying the tariffs on those goods.

American farmers, especially soy bean farmers, are being significantly harmed by the Chinese tariffs because China changed suppliers to South America. US soy bean producers lost a major customer and China will not purchase US soy beans in the future because they've established a new supply chain.
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Old 06-01-2019, 12:17 PM
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Default Re: President Trump and tariffs

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Tariffs impose an additional cost on the consumer. They are never paid for by the country providing the commodities. They have a limited purpose but the results are always the same. The consumer pays more for the goods.
I agree.

This may take one of two different forms: Either the consumer may purchase foreign-made goods, and pay the tariff imposed upon those goods (which will simply be passed along to the consumer, in the form of higher prices); or he (or she) may purchase American-made goods--which are typically higher priced, due principally to the wages we pay in this country, vis-ŗ-vis the wages paid in China.

Note: It Is reasonable to declare that we are now in a war with China--not a shooting war, but a trade war--and that Americans should, therefore, just make the necessary sacrifices, as Americans did during WWII.

But if that is indeed the case, we should probably have a national discussion about it first, and then act accordingly.
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Old 06-01-2019, 12:40 PM
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Default Re: President Trump and tariffs

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Good point and Mexican immigration here is at a net minus something. Plus they have slowed down Guetamalan emmigration through their country with new policies. The amount is still high I admit but I don't see how punishing Mexico will help.
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Trump should have had a plan in place long before these people started flooding the border. He admitted verbally they were on their way and he did nothing but stoke up his voters at rallies with build the wall bullsht. He's still doing it and it's a disaster.
Mexicans caught illegally crossing near the border are returned to Mexico almost immediately. The problem is the flood of illegal crossings by people from other countries. In each of the past 3 months the border patrol has taken more than 100,000 illegals into custody. Just yesterday the border patrol apprehended 1,000 illegal crossers near San Antonio, a record. That's before the peak summer season.

There has also been a spike in the number of people claiming asylum. Many are accompanied by minor children assured of being detained for a maximum of 21 days. Due to overcrowding many are released into the US with a summons for a hearing in the far future.

Trump had a plan months before the current crisis. End catch and release by charging illegal crossers with a misdemeanor then deporting them. Democrats shot this down as "zero tolerance" implying that some illegal crossings should be tolerated. Trump offered at great political risk to effectively offer amnesty to twice as many DACA recipients as Democrats wanted in exchange for wall funding. Democrats rejected the offer out of hand. Congressional Democrats insisted Trump must abandon building a border wall before any budget negotiations could begin then left town allowing the budget to lapse shutting down the government. When President Trump declared the border situation a crisis Democrats denied the reality and attacked him.

President Trump had an advance plan to deal with the problem of illegal aliens crossing the border. Democrats craven adherence to partisan politics blocked it. It is not surprising to see the rampant exploitation of this Democrat imposed stalemate by illegal immigrants.
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Old 06-01-2019, 06:40 PM
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Default Re: President Trump and tariffs

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Mexicans caught illegally crossing near the border are returned to Mexico almost immediately. The problem is the flood of illegal crossings by people from other countries. In each of the past 3 months the border patrol has taken more than 100,000 illegals into custody. Just yesterday the border patrol apprehended 1,000 illegal crossers near San Antonio, a record. That's before the peak summer season.
no actually a net total are leaving going back to Mexico and Mexico has changed policies successfully lowering the number crossing through their country. still a bunch I admit but less.
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There has also been a spike in the number of people claiming asylum.
yes because there is a spike in danger in several of those countries.


Quote:
Many are accompanied by minor children assured of being detained for a maximum of 21 days. Due to overcrowding many are released into the US with a summons for a hearing in the far future.
Trump should have had a plan to deal with that many asylum seekers. sanctuary from crises in the home country is a law of the United States.
Quote:
Trump had a plan months before the current crisis. End catch and release by charging illegal crossers with a misdemeanor then deporting them.
which would have been illegal under our constitution

Quote:
Democrats shot this down as "zero tolerance" implying that some illegal crossings should be tolerated. Trump offered at great political risk to effectively offer amnesty to twice as many DACA recipients as Democrats wanted in exchange for wall funding. Democrats rejected the offer out of hand. Congressional Democrats insisted Trump must abandon building a border wall before any budget negotiations could begin then left town allowing the budget to lapse shutting down the government. When President Trump declared the border situation a crisis Democrats denied the reality and attacked him.
kids fighting over peanuts when the house is on fire


Quote:
President Trump had an advance plan to deal with the problem of illegal aliens crossing the border.
they are not and have not yet been determined as illegal.

Quote:
Democrats craven adherence to partisan politics blocked it. It is not surprising to see the rampant exploitation of this Democrat imposed stalemate by illegal immigrants.
it is not surprising to see both sides in dc fighting for voters instead of coming up with legal solutions.
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