Political Wrinkles  

Go Back   Political Wrinkles > General Forum > Open Discussion
Register FAQDonate PW Store PW Trivia Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Open Discussion Discuss Whatever the market will bear at the General Forum; Originally Posted by Gordon Shumway maybe you own a house. when you go to sell it you most definitely want ...

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2019, 09:02 AM
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tennessee
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,630
Thanks: 10,727
Thanked 4,030 Times in 2,619 Posts
Default Re: Whatever the market will bear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Shumway View Post
maybe you own a house. when you go to sell it you most definitely want the most you can get out of it maximizing profit. the home buyer is trying to get the most value for their buck.
I am not sure that this is a perfect analogy.

The home seller typically lists a house for more than he (or she) believes that it will sell for; and then drops the price, incrementally, until it sells (for a price that is fair to both parties). And the potential buyer may offer to purchase it for a price that is less than the listed price.

In a store, on the other hand, there is no negotiating.

And even if there were, it would be very hard to get the price down to a fair price (say, around six or seven dollars, instead of $22).
__________________
"In his second inaugural address, [Franklin D.] Roosevelt sought 'unimagined power' to enforce the 'proper subordination' of private power to public power. He got it…"—George Will, July 8, 2007
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2019, 09:37 AM
Conservative Sage
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 17,155
Thanks: 10,328
Thanked 10,856 Times in 6,544 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to AZRWinger
Default Re: Whatever the market will bear

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
I am not sure that this is a perfect analogy.

The home seller typically lists a house for more than he (or she) believes that it will sell for; and then drops the price, incrementally, until it sells (for a price that is fair to both parties). And the potential buyer may offer to purchase it for a price that is less than the listed price.

In a store, on the other hand, there is no negotiating.

And even if there were, it would be very hard to get the price down to a fair price (say, around six or seven dollars, instead of $22).
On the contrary, the consumer negotiates with the vendor by their decision to buy or not. There is a constant competition in retail for shelf space called facings in grocery stores.

What happens when the consumer doesn't purchase an item in a competitive environment? It gets discounted or returned to the manufacturer. You can observe this readily in the refrigerated sections of your local supermarket, if it doesn't move quickly it gets discounted or dumped. It doesn't happen as quickly with non perishables like dog bowls but it will take place if enough consumers decide not to buy.
__________________
What is a 30 something year old single man with a rock in one hand and a Honduran flag in the other?

An asylum seeker.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to AZRWinger For This Useful Post:
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2019, 10:34 AM
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,887
Thanks: 9,443
Thanked 7,710 Times in 4,625 Posts
Default Re: Whatever the market will bear

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
I am not sure that this is a perfect analogy.

The home seller typically lists a house for more than he (or she) believes that it will sell for; and then drops the price, incrementally, until it sells (for a price that is fair to both parties). And the potential buyer may offer to purchase it for a price that is less than the listed price.

In a store, on the other hand, there is no negotiating.

And even if there were, it would be very hard to get the price down to a fair price (say, around six or seven dollars, instead of $22).
You're making several assumptions that aren't true. First, the market recognizes no fair price, and if it did it would not be determined by an outside entity such as the government. What the market the market recognizes is that price that an informed buyer and seller are willing to agree to to complete a transaction In appraisal that's called the fair market value. Note the distinction between value and price. You didn't buy the bowl. It's still on the shelf.

Second, you are making the assumption that the buyer must have that bowl at that time purchased from that store with no no other options and no possible substitutions . That's almost never the case. In the case of a dog bowl I would say that's never the case. There are many options. From pouring dog food on the floor to serving it from the finest Wedgewood, or not having a dog at all.

Your home example is similarly flawed and presumes the motives and knowledge base of all sellers are the same. That's not the case.

Last edited by jimbo; 05-14-2019 at 10:49 AM..
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jimbo For This Useful Post:
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2019, 10:55 AM
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,887
Thanks: 9,443
Thanked 7,710 Times in 4,625 Posts
Default Re: Whatever the market will bear

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
I am not sure that this is a perfect analogy.

The home seller typically lists a house for more than he (or she) believes that it will sell for; and then drops the price, incrementally, until it sells (for a price that is fair to both parties). And the potential buyer may offer to purchase it for a price that is less than the listed price.

In a store, on the other hand, there is no negotiating.

And even if there were, it would be very hard to get the price down to a fair price (say, around six or seven dollars, instead of $22).
You're making several assumptions that aren't true. First, the market recognizes no fair price, and if it did it would not be determined by an outside entity such as the government. What the market the market recognizes is that price that an informed buyer and seller are willing to agree to to complete a transaction.

Second, you are making the assumption that the buyer must have that bowl at that time purchased from that store with no no other options and no possible substitutions . That's almost never the case. In the case of a bowl I would say that's never the case. There are many options.

Your home analogy is also flawed. There is no presumption that the agreed price is fair to both parties, even if you could define fair.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2019, 09:50 AM
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tennessee
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,630
Thanks: 10,727
Thanked 4,030 Times in 2,619 Posts
Default Re: Whatever the market will bear

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
On the contrary, the consumer negotiates with the vendor by their decision to buy or not. There is a constant competition in retail for shelf space called facings in grocery stores.

What happens when the consumer doesn't purchase an item in a competitive environment? It gets discounted or returned to the manufacturer. You can observe this readily in the refrigerated sections of your local supermarket, if it doesn't move quickly it gets discounted or dumped. It doesn't happen as quickly with non perishables like dog bowls but it will take place if enough consumers decide not to buy.
Your are quite correct.

But it is likely not possible to negotiate down the price at the moment that one wishes to make a purchase.

That is the only point that I was making.
__________________
"In his second inaugural address, [Franklin D.] Roosevelt sought 'unimagined power' to enforce the 'proper subordination' of private power to public power. He got it…"—George Will, July 8, 2007
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2019, 10:44 AM
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tennessee
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,630
Thanks: 10,727
Thanked 4,030 Times in 2,619 Posts
Default Re: Whatever the market will bear

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
You're making several assumptions that aren't true. First, the market recognizes no fair price, and if it did it would not be determined by an outside entity such as the government. What the market the market recognizes is that price that an informed buyer and seller are willing to agree to to complete a transaction.
I would wish to respectfully disagree.

For starters, I never said (or even implied) that I would want the government involved here. In fact, I emphatically do not wish that to be the case.

I simply am disappointed by what I view as unethical behavior on the part of the seller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
Second, you are making the assumption that the buyer must have that bowl at that time purchased from that store with no no other options and no possible substitutions . That's almost never the case. In the case of a bowl I would say that's never the case. There are many options.
Agreed.

But that still does not nullify my point, above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
Your home analogy is also flawed. There is no presumption that the agreed price is fair to both parties, even if you could define fair.
Perhaps that could be argued.

But there is at least negotiation here, leading to a price that is agreeable to both the seller and the buyer.

Typically, with in-store sales, there is no negotiating.
__________________
"In his second inaugural address, [Franklin D.] Roosevelt sought 'unimagined power' to enforce the 'proper subordination' of private power to public power. He got it…"—George Will, July 8, 2007
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2019, 01:19 PM
saltwn's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Esto perpetua
Posts: 80,316
Thanks: 55,149
Thanked 26,144 Times in 18,685 Posts
Send a message via AIM to saltwn Send a message via MSN to saltwn Send a message via Yahoo to saltwn
Default Re: Whatever the market will bear

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Just yesterday, I noticed some dog bowls for sale for $22. (Well, technically, for $21.99; but that is really over $23, given a sales tax of 9.75 percent.)

My guess is that these bowls probably cost no more than three or four dollars--at the most--to produce.

To my way of thinking, that is simply unconscionable. It is whatever-the market-will-bear pricing--rather than pricing to turn a reasonable profit.

And the former is certainly not what capitalism is all about, in my view.

Comments?
You might be right:

The surprising reason drug prices are on the rise


Prices for drugs of all types and from all classes (brand-name, specialty, generics/oral or injectable) have been rising faster than inflation over the study period, from 2008 to 2016, according to the researchers’ review of wholesale prices for thousands of drugs.

But the bigger surprise is that brand-name drugs in particular are seeing a counterintuitive trend: Rising prices for brand-name drugs were mostly attributable to existing drugs that were already on the market. Insulin in particular was one notable offender, the study found.

“In the brand-name market, there was inflation of drugs that have been around for a while, that were exactly the same as they were the previous year,” Inmaculada Hernandez, an assistant pharmacy professor at Pitt who led the study, says. “They are the same drugs they used to be. Prices are increasing because the market is bearing it.”
__________________
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to saltwn For This Useful Post:
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-15-2019, 01:20 PM
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,887
Thanks: 9,443
Thanked 7,710 Times in 4,625 Posts
Default Re: Whatever the market will bear

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
I would wish to respectfully disagree.

For starters, I never said (or even implied) that I would want the government involved here. In fact, I emphatically do not wish that to be the case.

I simply am disappointed by what I view as unethical behavior on the part of the seller.



Agreed.

But that still does not nullify my point, above.



Perhaps that could be argued.

But there is at least negotiation here, leading to a price that is agreeable to both the seller and the buyer.

Typically, with in-store sales, there is no negotiating.
First, you might be surprised that the vendor may take your 15 dollar offer. If he doesn't the guy next door might. If he doesn't your dog probably doesn't care if his food gets poured in that bowl or in a recycled throwaway supermarket food container. There's nothing in the rule book that says you can only negotiate with in store sales.

You're whole argument seems to be based on the premise that you must have that bowl at that time at a lower price or you're getting screwed over by the vendor. That's just not the market definition or how it operates.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jimbo For This Useful Post:
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2019, 01:07 PM
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Tennessee
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,630
Thanks: 10,727
Thanked 4,030 Times in 2,619 Posts
Default Re: Whatever the market will bear

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
First, you might be surprised that the vendor may take your 15 dollar offer.
Why would I wish to offer 15 dollars, anyway? (Anything over three or four dollars would be enormously wasteful, in my view. As you pointed out, the dog really does not know or care, anyway.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
There's nothing in the rule book that says you can only negotiate with in store sales.
I am assuming you mean that nothing says that one cannot negotiate as regarding in-store sales.

And that is true. Nothing says that, explicitly.

But it is very seldom done.

In any case, there is no way of knowing just how much the store owner paid for the item; and lowballing him beneath the wholesale price would be insulting. (This is not at all analogous to the pricing of one's house, for sale.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
You're whole argument seems to be based on the premise that you must have that bowl at that time at a lower price or you're getting screwed over by the vendor. That's just not the market definition or how it operates.
I am beginning to think that your view of capitalism is that it is some amoral economic theory.

That is not my view at all.

Even if socialism were entirely workable--and it is not--it is far less moral than capitalism, in my view. (My own pastor is a thoroughgoing capitalist. I know, because of his off-the-cuff remarks in Sunday School.)

I do believe that you are caricaturing (and thereby debasing) capitalism.
__________________
"In his second inaugural address, [Franklin D.] Roosevelt sought 'unimagined power' to enforce the 'proper subordination' of private power to public power. He got it…"—George Will, July 8, 2007
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to pjohns For This Useful Post:
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 05-18-2019, 02:36 AM
saltwn's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Esto perpetua
Posts: 80,316
Thanks: 55,149
Thanked 26,144 Times in 18,685 Posts
Send a message via AIM to saltwn Send a message via MSN to saltwn Send a message via Yahoo to saltwn
Default Re: Whatever the market will bear

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Why would I wish to offer 15 dollars, anyway? (Anything over three or four dollars would be enormously wasteful, in my view. As you pointed out, the dog really does not know or care, anyway.)



I am assuming you mean that nothing says that one cannot negotiate as regarding in-store sales.

And that is true. Nothing says that, explicitly.

But it is very seldom done.

In any case, there is no way of knowing just how much the store owner paid for the item; and lowballing him beneath the wholesale price would be insulting. (This is not at all analogous to the pricing of one's house, for sale.)



I am beginning to think that your view of capitalism is that it is some amoral economic theory.

That is not my view at all.

Even if socialism were entirely workable--and it is not--it is far less moral than capitalism, in my view. (My own pastor is a thoroughgoing capitalist. I know, because of his off-the-cuff remarks in Sunday School.)

I do believe that you are caricaturing (and thereby debasing) capitalism.
It has long been my opinion that true capitalism is on life support. some alive today have never even experienced it.
a good long while back retailers started experimenting with offering us what they wanted to offer in the way of brands and sometimes even in goods themselves.
I also believe that that article about pricing is just the tip of an iceberg that has been floating happily in a price fixed ocean of consumers for decades.
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bear, market, the, whatever, will

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0