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Open Discussion Discuss Who Were the Most Dishonest Presidents in History at the General Forum; Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop Didn’t read the linked article, but, seriously, even if you support Trump, you must admit that ...

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Old 05-05-2019, 10:50 AM
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Default Re: Who Were the Most Dishonest Presidents in History

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
Didn’t read the linked article, but, seriously, even if you support Trump, you must admit that he is a serial liar, the likes of which we have never seen in the White House in any of our lifetimes.
The fact that Trumps Tweets DAILY and what he tweets and retweets is so often, Half-Truths, false, if not outright lies would have to put him high on the list since most presidents comments to the public and press have been FAR less frequent.

The problem with a list like this is of course bias of all involved of all stripes.
and people's idea of what's "a lie".
"I don't Recall... trickle down..."
"No new taxes... "
"I never had sexual relations with..."
"Most transparent president ever... If you like your Dr... We don't listen to your phone calls.."
"i'm the best negotiator...

Are the kind of lies most people can easily agree with. but more subtle misdirections, half-truths and silence also count as lies when used on purpose. then there's the use (shield) of surrogates to propel the propaganda.
And for me and many others there the huge area of presidents framing or support of frame whole issues in a false way historically.
Nearly every War and "conflict" after WW2 was promoted on lies, the Kennedy assassination cover up, and likely even 9-11.
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Last edited by mr wonder; 05-05-2019 at 11:09 AM..
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Old 05-05-2019, 11:07 AM
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Default Re: Who Were the Most Dishonest Presidents in History

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Shumway View Post
https://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/w...-compare.html/

this is not meant to rip on any of the presidents who made this list.
instead i’d like to make a point about a few who didn’t make the list.
of the presidents in my lifetime only three are not on this list.
george hw bush; jimmy carter; and gerald ford.
none of them won re-election.
bush and carter each served 1 full term while ford only served what remained of nixon’s second term.
i find it interesting that we re-elect the most prolific liars while kick those who aren’t to the curb and then wonder what’s wrong with our elected leadership.
it cannot be said enough: we get the government we deserve.
The fact that George HW Bush is in that group IMO is a testament to how GOOD of a lair he was.
The guy was the head of the professional liars club the CIA and used those skills throughout his political life.

His rhetoric about his attack on Panama, Noriega and the shame "War on Drug" and his white washed lead role in Iran-Contra and the torturous "Operation condor" was where his biggest body of lies were IMO. The fact that he's managed to create and keep up an air of the Decent Gentlemen is a testament to his skill as a liar.
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Old 05-05-2019, 11:12 AM
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Default Re: Who Were the Most Dishonest Presidents in History

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
The fact that Trumps Tweets DAILY and what he tweets and retweets is so often, Half-Truths, false, if not outright lies would have to put him high on the list since most presidents comments to the public and press have been FAR less frequent.

The problem with a list like this is of course bias of all involved on all stripes.
and people's idea of what's "a lie".
"I don't Recall... trickle down..."
"No new taxes... "
"I never had sexual relations with..."
"Most transparent president ever... If you like your Dr... We don't listen to your phone calls.."
"i'm the best negotiator...

Are the kind of lies most people can easily agree with. but more subtle misdirections, half-truths and silence also count as lies when used on purpose. then there's the use (shield) of surrogates to propel the propaganda.
And for me and many others there the huge area of presidents framing or support of frame whole issues in a false way historically.
Nearly every War and "conflict" after WW2 was promoted on lies, the Kennedy assassination cover up, and likely even 9-11.
President Trump eschews the traditional media filter in favor of communication directly with the People. It's understandable the media would resent having their ability to shape and distort the news to their partisan liking.

Instead of the bromide all Presidents or even politicians lie, why not use the objective criteria of impeachment for lying? Oh wait, that would make a Democrat President the most dishonest violating the purpose of the list, smear Trump.
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Old 05-05-2019, 11:20 AM
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Default Re: Who Were the Most Dishonest Presidents in History

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
President Trump eschews the traditional media filter in favor of communication directly with the People.
I've got no problem with that. I just wish he'd check his facts before he tweeted. And used it for more than just petty name calling and the like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
It's understandable the media would resent having their ability to shape and distort the news to their partisan liking.
the MSM hates competition but there's no need for Trump to give them so much half-baked ammo to use against him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Instead of the bromide all Presidents or even politicians lie, why not use the objective criteria of impeachment for lying? Oh wait, that would make a Democrat President the most dishonest violating the purpose of the list, smear Trump.
well, if the bromide is TRUE why not use it?
And impeachment is another list that could be used too, but most presidents aren't brought up for impeachment becasue they've told "the most" lies.
ALL have told lies, that not just a bromide, it's a fact.
And yes the MSM has a bias against trump and this is just another tool to express their dislike. But that doesn't mean Trump is the MOST Honest. or even in the middle.
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Old 05-05-2019, 02:05 PM
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Default Re: Who Were the Most Dishonest Presidents in History

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
The fact that Trumps Tweets DAILY and what he tweets and retweets is so often, Half-Truths, false, if not outright lies would have to put him high on the list since most presidents comments to the public and press have been FAR less frequent.

The problem with a list like this is of course bias of all involved of all stripes.
and people's idea of what's "a lie".
"I don't Recall... trickle down..."
"No new taxes... "
"I never had sexual relations with..."
"Most transparent president ever... If you like your Dr... We don't listen to your phone calls.."
"i'm the best negotiator...

Are the kind of lies most people can easily agree with. but more subtle misdirections, half-truths and silence also count as lies when used on purpose. then there's the use (shield) of surrogates to propel the propaganda.
And for me and many others there the huge area of presidents framing or support of frame whole issues in a false way historically.
Nearly every War and "conflict" after WW2 was promoted on lies, the Kennedy assassination cover up, and likely even 9-11.
to be fair "No new taxes... " was a promise bush sr. thought he could keep till he saw what a hole reagan had left with his cuts
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Old 05-05-2019, 02:07 PM
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Default Re: Who Were the Most Dishonest Presidents in History

Boston Globe marks milestone of Trump's 10,000th lie

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...AXN/story.html
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Old 05-05-2019, 03:24 PM
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Default Re: Who Were the Most Dishonest Presidents in History

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to be fair "No new taxes... " was a promise bush sr. thought he could keep till he saw what a hole reagan had left with his cuts
Sorry but, He was vice president when Reagan was Pres. So i can't buy that there was something about the economy he didn't see.
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Old 05-06-2019, 06:04 AM
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Default Re: Who Were the Most Dishonest Presidents in History

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
The Resistance media creates a phony statistic of 10,000 lies attributed to President Trump and you repeat it without question. The list of the most dishonest Presidents even includes George Washington for an inappropriate love letter written decades before he became President. That is indicative of the pure smear tactics of Alternet its author.

It's inarguable President Clinton lied to grand jury . This offense was sufficient to get him impeached. But that escapes your notice because mindless Orange man bad is the obsession.
Knowing how important it is to Trump supporters to get to the truth without just reading the "fake news" in the media I've located the secret link to the Washington Post's Fact Checker of Donald Trump's false and misleading statements just for you.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...=.9f1169593090

Now you can use the Post's own database to disprove the statement that Trump's made over 10,000 false and misleading statements. Go in and personally count them or find one on the Washington Post's list that isn't a lie or false statement. Go look for yourself so you don't have to depend upon anyone's say-so about it. When you find that evidence please share it with us.

Yes, I recall Clinton's perjury and he was impeached for a single false statement made on a deposition in the Paula Jones sexual harassment deposition. "I didn't have sex with that woman." Who could forget that famous lie by Bill Clinton? This was about a personal matter that had nothing to do with our government and for it Clinton was impeached. The Senate, after reviewing the articles of impeachment, determined that the offense related to a personal issue and didn't rise to the level warranting removal from office.

Donald Trump has lied hundreds of times about issues effecting our national security placing the United States at great risk. A bit more important than lying about a blowjob, don't ya think?

So should we use the Clinton impeachment as a guideline and impeach Donald Trump so that the Senate can review the lies by Donald Trump that places the United States at great risk with our enemies?
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Old 05-06-2019, 06:56 AM
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Default Re: Who Were the Most Dishonest Presidents in History

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
President Trump eschews the traditional media filter in favor of communication directly with the People. It's understandable the media would resent having their ability to shape and distort the news to their partisan liking.
The traditional news media has the self-imposed criteria of truthfully reporting the news to the American people while President Trump has no criteria related to telling the truth in his communications with the people.

In those rare instances when the news media makes a mistake and misrepresents the truth it publishes a retraction and openly admits it's mistake. The President has never retracted a single false or misleading statement since taking office.

When the news media makes a false statement the national security of the United States is not placed at risk. The President has made hundreds of false or misleading statements that have placed the national security of the United States at risk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Instead of the bromide all Presidents or even politicians lie, why not use the objective criteria of impeachment for lying? Oh wait, that would make a Democrat President the most dishonest violating the purpose of the list, smear Trump.
Quote:
The requirements to impeach a president are found in Article II, Section IV of the Constitution. It states that the President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors.
Let's us the criteria established in the Constitution and apply the standards of law in the indictment and prosecution of the president where evidence exists to support the indictment and prosecution. The only reason President Trump was not indicted for Obstruction of Justice based upon the findings of the Mueller Investigation was the DOJ policy of not indicting and prosecuting a sitting president. That exemption from indictment and prosecution of a sitting president is not found anywhere in the Constitution and Article II Section IV directly refers to "conviction" of a president for crimes committed.

The Mueller Report clearly states that the evidence prevented any declaration of Trump being innocent of obstruction of justice. The Mueller Report clearly established that the reason there wasn't an indictment of President Trump for obstruction of justice was the DOJ policy that prevented the indictment of a sitting president. The Mueller Report clearly laid out the necessary evidence for the indictment and prosecution of President Trump for obstruction of justice.

The only thing left remaining is the decision of a jury that would result in the conviction of Donald Trump for obstruction of justice that the DOJ doesn't have the authority to make. Upon conviction then Donald Trump would be impeached and removed from office in compliance with Article II Section IV.

That's the criteria as established in the Constitution so it must be assumed that Trump supporters are fully supportive of rescinding the DOJ policy so that the DOJ can indict and prosecute President Trump based upon the evidence gathered by Special Counsel Robert Mueller of obstruction of justice.

Then we can let a jury decide if Trump broke the law and if the jury convicts Donald Trump then it's out the door of the White House and in the door of a federal prison for President Trump where he can join others that were a part of his crooked campaign based upon Trump's own criminal actions as President.
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Old 05-06-2019, 07:53 AM
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Default Re: Who Were the Most Dishonest Presidents in History

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
Sorry but, He was vice president when Reagan was Pres. So i can't buy that there was something about the economy he didn't see.
Agreed, Bush Sr raised taxes for political reasons. It backfired.

After using the tax increase as a political weapon against Bush during the election campaign Bill Clinton pushed through a substantial tax increase early in his administration. The excuse for breaking his promise, if he were a Republican it would be called lying, was that the Federal government was in much worse shape than he knew when he was running for office. Naturally the adoring media bought the hoax without question.
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