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Open Discussion Discuss 'I canít understand why': Mitt Romney criticizes Trump for attacks on the late John M at the General Forum; Originally Posted by saltwn yes they are. they brainwash students with rw propaganda. The words "brainwash" and "propaganda" are strident ...

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Old 03-21-2019, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: 'I canít understand why': Mitt Romney criticizes Trump for attacks on the late Jo

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
yes they are. they brainwash students with rw propaganda.
The words "brainwash" and "propaganda" are strident terms, which hardly describe what the Heritage Foundation does in any neutral sense.
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:58 PM
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Default Re: 'I canít understand why': Mitt Romney criticizes Trump for attacks on the late Jo

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Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
Youíre hopelessly clueless about how hiring works out of law school. The president of the Harvard Law Review, whoever it is, is just about the most sought after law school graduate in the country. He could easily have had a Supreme Court clerkship or associate position at any law firm in the country.
You forgot that Obama is black, looks good on the EEOC report. Why then did Obama return to the hot bed of radical Leftist extremism in Chicago? You'd have to be clueless to not know the answer. It was his best chance to achieve the objective of all community organizers, political power.

Still waiting for evidence of Pre President Obama's expertise in executive leadership or even rudimentary skills in budgeting or foreign affairs. Oh wait, Obama lived overseas when he was 10.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:07 AM
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Default Re: 'I canít understand why': Mitt Romney criticizes Trump for attacks on the late Jo

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
And all anti Trump'ers are Communists intent upon enslaving populations with the intent to enrich themselves at the expense of the country.

See, I can play that game too. Painting with a wide brush is pretty easy to do, but intellectually lazy. But that is par for the course of Progressives and their policies.
Except it isn’t a game, and the difference is that I have actual demonstrable evidence to back up my argument. If you claim to be a patriot, you cannot uncritically support a guy who has decided to relentlessly disparage a dead war hero.

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You forgot that Obama is black, looks good on the EEOC report. Why then did Obama return to the hot bed of radical Leftist extremism in Chicago? You'd have to be clueless to not know the answer. It was his best chance to achieve the objective of all community organizers, political power.
The University of Chicago Law School, where Antonin Scalia taught before his appointment to the court and where Richard Posner teaches today, is “the hot bed of radical Leftist extremism”? Where do you people come up with this idiocy?
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:53 AM
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Default Re: 'I canít understand why': Mitt Romney criticizes Trump for attacks on the late Jo

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Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
Except it isnít a game, and the difference is that I have actual demonstrable evidence to back up my argument.
And I can demonstrate evidence to support my argument. So what? My point, that apparently went sailing right over your head, was that you are painting everyone that disagree's with you about Trump, Republicans, Conservatives or whatever else you rail on about, with the same wide brush, attributing their positions to racism, fascism, fear of homosexuals, or whatever other excuse you can come up with. But if I were to do the same to you, you would scream how wrong I am to paint you with that brush, as you JUST DID!

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Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
If you claim to be a patriot, you cannot uncritically support a guy who has decided to relentlessly disparage a dead war hero.
Who is claiming to be a parrot? I can point to quite a few parrots of DNC talking points, on this very forum. Folks that couldn't think there way out of a paper bag, yet will defend the dumbest policy proposals that ANY Dem spouts out of sheer partisanship.

The problem is that you, and most like you, cannot understand that while I and many of the Conservatives on this forum, agree with many of Trumps policies and actions while in office, do not look as Trump as some sort of God the way the left did Obama. He is a human being that has his faults. I happen to think he is a narcissist and a bit of an ego maniac as well as a womanizer. However, I agree with many of the things he has done as President. I can separate his actions from his job performance.

Those of you on the left, seem to believe that the person that you support, is infallible and everything they do or say, is worthy of praise, regardless of their lack of consistency with principles. And then, anyone that opposes your idols are some sort of heretic that is speaking blasphemy against your god.

If you have a problem with Trump the person, join the club. Of all of the people that have held the office to date, Trump may be the one that I would most not want to share a beverage with or have a friendship.

However, he was elected to the office by a majority of the voters in the Electoral College; you know, the process that is defined in the Constitution. And as for his performance in that job to date, I mostly agree with what he has done. Does this make me some sort of Trump apologist?
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Old 03-22-2019, 09:33 AM
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Default Re: 'I canít understand why': Mitt Romney criticizes Trump for attacks on the late Jo

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
I tend to like people who do what they say, push on regardless of the snow drifts, and actually think through their actions.
Apparently you like John McCain and despise Donald Trump.

Trump never thinks through his actions, quickly abandons what he promises to accept whatever the GOP comes up with, and creates the snow drifts he encounters.

McCain did not vote for the GOP health care bill because it was about denying health care, not providing it. It was not what Trump had proposed which was health care for everyone at a fraction of the "per person" cost of Obamacare. John McCain wasn't a perfect person or a perfect politician and many opposed some of the positions he held but he was an honorable man and a true American patriot.

Donald Trump is unqualified and unfit to be president, he has never been an honorable man, and has never been an American patriot.
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:09 AM
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Default Re: 'I canít understand why': Mitt Romney criticizes Trump for attacks on the late Jo

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Apparently you like John McCain and despise Donald Trump.

Trump never thinks through his actions, quickly abandons what he promises to accept whatever the GOP comes up with, and creates the snow drifts he encounters.

McCain did not vote for the GOP health care bill because it was about denying health care, not providing it. It was not what Trump had proposed which was health care for everyone at a fraction of the "per person" cost of Obamacare. John McCain wasn't a perfect person or a perfect politician and many opposed some of the positions he held but he was an honorable man and a true American patriot.

Donald Trump is unqualified and unfit to be president, he has never been an honorable man, and has never been an American patriot.
I don't particularly care for either man. And let's make one additional thing very clear... I don't care if a person is dead or alive, if I find issue with them or their actions, I will state such.

The positive for Trump is that he is approaching the issues of this country from a different perspective than all his predecessors, and if he succeeds or fails, at least somebody will have examined avenues that might well succeed. You don't know until you've tried.

Those that continue to play the same game, dredging forth methods that have failed before, thinking they will get different results, are the very definition of insanity.

McCain was a rather milquetoast person, did nothing to stand out politically as good or bad, but definitely a RINO and likely to bend to the prevailing winds. I'm still not finding anything that defines him as a 'hero', so perhaps those that kneel at his effigy might advise me of it.
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:18 AM
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Default Re: 'I canít understand why': Mitt Romney criticizes Trump for attacks on the late Jo

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
The problem is that you, and most like you, cannot understand that while I and many of the Conservatives on this forum, agree with many of Trumps policies and actions while in office, do not look as Trump as some sort of God the way the left did Obama. He is a human being that has his faults. I happen to think he is a narcissist and a bit of an ego maniac as well as a womanizer. However, I agree with many of the things he has done as President. I can separate his actions from his job performance.
I'm always intrigued by the claim that conservatives support what Trump has done because I'd ask what that might be.

In 2017 Trump took credit for the economy but did nothing to change the economy. No significant legislation was signed into law that would have changed the economy during 2017. In 2018 he also claimed responsibility for the economy while the only legislation that would effect it was the Tax Cuts for the wealthy and corporations that wasn't what Trump had campaigned on and that the American people opposed. Review of the effects of those tax cuts didn't improve the economy at all but did increase the wealth of corporations and the super-wealthy while driving huge deficit spending by the federal government.

Can it be that conservatives support the wholesale destruction of the environment that Trump initiated? Appointment of Scott Pruitt that rescinded numerous environmental protects without any studies to support those decisions was eventually forced to resign because of his unethical behavior and mismanagement of the EPA.

Or do conservatives support Trump's head of the Interior Department that took protected lands away from the American people to hand over to his friends in the oil industry? Ryan Zinke, Trump's Secretary of the Interior, was also forced to resign because of numerous criminal investigations over his using his department to personally enrich himself while serving.

Perhaps it's Trump's foreign policy where he withdrew from the Paris Accord to fight global warming. There were no mandatory obligations in the Paris Accord and why would anyone oppose efforts to curb global warming that even the Pentagon tells us represents a serious threat to our national security.

Or how about rejecting the JCPOA (Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action) that the UN Security Council and Iran agreed to that's preventing Iran from producing a nuclear weapon? I know conservatives like to label this as a treaty but it's not. The treaty is the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) that's already been ratified by the US Senate. This was merely a plan of action to ensure Iran complied with the NPT. Iran is in compliance so why would we go against the UN Security Council on a Resolution we supported?

Please tell me what it is that Trump has done that you agree with?

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
Those of you on the left, seem to believe that the person that you support, is infallible and everything they do or say, is worthy of praise, regardless of their lack of consistency with principles. And then, anyone that opposes your idols are some sort of heretic that is speaking blasphemy against your god.
President Obama was never seen to be a "god" by anyone including the Democrats. He was certainly seen to be "better than average" by the majority of Americans (56% approval rating when leaving office) and "the best there is" as seen by those in foreign countries that rated Obama the world leader they respected the most in 2015 and 2016.

President Obama was not a perfect man or a perfect politician but he was always an honorable man and an American patriot that respected the Office of the President.

Donald Trump has never been an honorable man, has never been an American patriot, and has disgraced the Office of the President.

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
If you have a problem with Trump the person, join the club. Of all of the people that have held the office to date, Trump may be the one that I would most not want to share a beverage with or have a friendship.
I have no problem at all with Trump the person. I have every problem possible with Trump the President. He's unqualified and unfit to be president and he continuously disgraces the Office of the President.

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
However, he was elected to the office by a majority of the voters in the Electoral College; you know, the process that is defined in the Constitution. And as for his performance in that job to date, I mostly agree with what he has done. Does this make me some sort of Trump apologist?
Trump was elected based upon the 12th Amendment to the US Constitution that was ratified by political parties that wanted to take control of the Electoral College. The original purpose of the Electoral College to have independent experts on the requirements for the President, not beholding to any outside influence or political agenda, snd that were delegated with the responsibility to select the best possible person to be president. That was corrupted by the 12th Amendment.

Learn the history of the Electoral College as envisioned by the founders in the Constitution by reading Federalist 68. Neither Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton would ever have become president if we still followed Hamilton's proposal for the Electoral College as expressed in Federalist 68.

The Federalist #68

The Electoral College needed some fixing once it was initiated but instead of fixing the problems the 12th Amendment corrupted the Electoral College.
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Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.

Last edited by ShivaTD; 03-22-2019 at 10:23 AM..
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:27 AM
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Default Re: 'I canít understand why': Mitt Romney criticizes Trump for attacks on the late Jo

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Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
You forgot that Obama is black, looks good on the EEOC report. Why then did Obama return to the hot bed of radical Leftist extremism in Chicago? You'd have to be clueless to not know the answer. It was his best chance to achieve the objective of all community organizers, political power.
The University of Chicago Law School, where Antonin Scalia taught before his appointment to the court and where Richard Posner teaches today, is ďthe hot bed of radical Leftist extremismĒ? Where do you people come up with this idiocy?
Scalia was in Chicago , teaching, for 5 years...

Obama returned to his home court, Chicago, where he's been for decades...

How the heck is this comparable???...
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:41 AM
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Default Re: 'I canít understand why': Mitt Romney criticizes Trump for attacks on the late Jo

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
McCain was a rather milquetoast person, did nothing to stand out politically as good or bad, but definitely a RINO and likely to bend to the prevailing winds.
RINO (Republican In Name Only) is a misnomer that has been applied to traditional Republicans that upheld the traditional ideology of fiscal conservatism and social liberalism that had existed in the Republican Party since at least WW II.

The "RINO' Republicans did not embrace the Neo-Con ideology that migrated from the Democratic Party during the 1980's nor did they embraces the religious conservatism and racism that also migrated from the Democratic Party at the same time. They were the Republicans that had supported the Civil Rights movement of the 1960's because they believed in equality for all people.

They were Republicans that expressed support for a balanced Supreme Court where originalism was always the first consideration but where pragmatism (non-originalism) still had a place. Justices like Scalia that was overwhelmingly an "Originalist" but that became pragmatic (non-originalist) if a Supreme Court decision would harm the American people would be their choice. They opposed packing the courts for political agendas regardless of whether it was to support Republican or Democratic agendas.

They placed Country ahead of Party in their actions.

They didn't fit with today's "Republicans" that were driven by religious bigotry, racism, foreign interventionism, and deficit spending to support tax cuts for the wealthy so they were labeled as "RINO's" because they stuck to the traditional values of the Republican Party that made it a party worth belonging to.

They were not swayed by the winds of change because they wouldn't compromise their values.

McCain was not completely a RINO but at least he still held some of the traditional Republican values. He opposed the GOP healthcare bill, for example, because it was about taking away healthcare and not providing it. It was bad legislation that the American people opposed and McCain place the American people ahead of the GOP and Trump in this one case. In other cases he folded to Party allegiance. He knew better than to vote to remove the cloture requirement for the Supreme Court but voted for it anyway.
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Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.
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Old 03-22-2019, 12:13 PM
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Default Re: 'I canít understand why': Mitt Romney criticizes Trump for attacks on the late Jo

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
I'm always intrigued by the claim that conservatives support what Trump has done because I'd ask what that might be.

In 2017 Trump took credit for the economy but did nothing to change the economy. No significant legislation was signed into law that would have changed the economy during 2017. In 2018 he also claimed responsibility for the economy while the only legislation that would effect it was the Tax Cuts for the wealthy and corporations that wasn't what Trump had campaigned on and that the American people opposed. Review of the effects of those tax cuts didn't improve the economy at all but did increase the wealth of corporations and the super-wealthy while driving huge deficit spending by the federal government.
Do you ever tire of treading out the same failed DNC talking points? The day after Trump was elected, Wall Street made a sharp turn upwards in speculation. Prior to his inauguration, business began announcing plans to expand and invest money into their operations. This hadn't been done in the previous 8 years. Do you ever wonder why?

As for you talking point about the tax cuts only applying to corps and the rich, that's funny. My taxes went down and I am hardly rich. The amount of the drop did not mean that I could change my lifestyle or move from the middle to the upper class, but it was enough that I had a few more dollars in my pocket every paycheck that I didn't have to return to the government in April, unlike the Obama "Tax Cut" (ie. nothing but changing the withholding tables).

And yes, it did drive up deficits as the immediate result to the treasury was a decrease in revenue. However, the longer term prospects of the tax cut are projected to yield greater revenues into the Treasury.

However, increasing revenue is nice, but cutting spending is more important to curtailing or lowering the deficit. That takes more than 1 person to accomplish.


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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Can it be that conservatives support the wholesale destruction of the environment that Trump initiated? Appointment of Scott Pruitt that rescinded numerous environmental protects without any studies to support those decisions was eventually forced to resign because of his unethical behavior and mismanagement of the EPA.

Or do conservatives support Trump's head of the Interior Department that took protected lands away from the American people to hand over to his friends in the oil industry? Ryan Zinke, Trump's Secretary of the Interior, was also forced to resign because of numerous criminal investigations over his using his department to personally enrich himself while serving.
More bogus garbage from you. You completely ignore that Trump just signed the largest wilderness protection bill in the last decade.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/03/...l-in-a-decade/

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Perhaps it's Trump's foreign policy where he withdrew from the Paris Accord to fight global warming. There were no mandatory obligations in the Paris Accord and why would anyone oppose efforts to curb global warming that even the Pentagon tells us represents a serious threat to our national security.
Thank God he removed us from that accord as it put the burden of solving "climate change" (one of the biggest frauds ever perpetuated on the public) on the United States instead of the countries most responsible for pollution (China and India) by giving the 3rd world status.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Or how about rejecting the JCPOA (Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action) that the UN Security Council and Iran agreed to that's preventing Iran from producing a nuclear weapon? I know conservatives like to label this as a treaty but it's not. The treaty is the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) that's already been ratified by the US Senate. This was merely a plan of action to ensure Iran complied with the NPT. Iran is in compliance so why would we go against the UN Security Council on a Resolution we supported?
Do you mean the agreement that was so great that Obama didn't even bother to run through the Senate for Ratification and that the Iran's didn't even sign? The only ones happy with that agreement were the Iranians that received pallets of cash to sign. It was nothing but a huge middle finger to Israel and the American public.

Please tell me what it is that Trump has done that you agree with?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
President Obama was never seen to be a "god" by anyone including the Democrats. He was certainly seen to be "better than average" by the majority of Americans (56% approval rating when leaving office) and "the best there is" as seen by those in foreign countries that rated Obama the world leader they respected the most in 2015 and 2016.
That's rich. Obama thought of himself as a God.

Quote:
In 2008, then President-elect Barack Obama said his victory marked “the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal.”
https://dailycaller.com/2015/04/21/h...ea-level-rise/

What would cause someone to make such a proclamation other than they saw themselves as a Messiah?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
President Obama was not a perfect man or a perfect politician but he was always an honorable man and an American patriot that respected the Office of the President.
Yeah, especially when he went on his world apology tour and bowed to foreign dictators. How truly Presidential he looked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Donald Trump has never been an honorable man, has never been an American patriot, and has disgraced the Office of the President.
I've already stated how I feel about Trump the person. However, he has done more to make good on his campaign promises as any President in my lifetime. Obama couldn't even close Gitmo as he promised. However, that wasn't the only promise that Obama failed to follow through on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
I have no problem at all with Trump the person. I have every problem possible with Trump the President. He's unqualified and unfit to be president and he continuously disgraces the Office of the President.
He is a natural born citizen, he is over the age of 35 and has not been convicted of high crimes against the nation. He fits the requirement for office as outlined by the Constitution. The fact that YOU don't like him, was never a criteria that any candidate had to comply with.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Trump was elected based upon the 12th Amendment to the US Constitution that was ratified by political parties that wanted to take control of the Electoral College. The original purpose of the Electoral College to have independent experts on the requirements for the President, not beholding to any outside influence or political agenda, snd that were delegated with the responsibility to select the best possible person to be president. That was corrupted by the 12th Amendment.
Wrong. The Electoral College was conceived by the Founders as a means to prevent the large population centers from running roughshod over the smaller states by allowing the equal representation. If not for the EC, you would never see a President or Presidential Candidate outside of NYC or California come election season.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Learn the history of the Electoral College as envisioned by the founders in the Constitution by reading Federalist 68. Neither Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton would ever have become president if we still followed Hamilton's proposal for the Electoral College as expressed in Federalist 68.
It is of no concern what Hamilton proposed. Trump won by the system that they eventually decided upon. Those of you on the left can cry and complain about it until you are blue in the face. However, he won by the rules. But now, you guys want to change to rules because you can't seem to grasp that they don't favor the Dems.


The Federalist #68

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The Electoral College needed some fixing once it was initiated but instead of fixing the problems the 12th Amendment corrupted the Electoral College.
I find it funny that many of the same people that are now complaining about the EC are also upset that each state is represented by 2 Senators. I've heard Dems saying things from proportioning Senators by a states population, just as the House does, to eliminating the Senate because smaller states have has much voting power as the larger states. If you want to educate people about the founders intentions, I suggest you start with your Progressive friends.
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