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Open Discussion Discuss Is The American Experiment now dying? at the General Forum; Originally Posted by Dog Man We are all rational, you are the irrational person. Just read your signature. It will ...

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Old 10-09-2018, 11:10 PM
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Default Re: Is The American Experiment now dying?

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We are all rational, you are the irrational person. Just read your signature.

It will be kind of like looking in the mirror I guess.

Injustice is lynching a person based on un provable hearsay from one person.

If this kind of shlt keeps going on, you will be right, America as we know it will die.

Liberalism = irrational injustice
Liberalism = the founding fathers
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Old 10-10-2018, 05:36 AM
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Default Re: Is The American Experiment now dying?

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This thing we commonly refer to as "The American Experiment"--has it, at last, failed?
More than 150 years ago, it appeared to have failed, when the country tore itself apart during the Civil War.
Caused by the hypocritical flaw of promoting 'liberty for all' while enslaving millions. Many predicted the war over the issue even at the outset of the nation. It didn't have to be but some where to entrenched in the "peculiar institution" to see it.

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Yet it eventually recovered (albeit with a delayed healing, due to the punitive Reconstruction Era).
and 100 more years of discrimination against minorities of all stripes. Relieved slow and grudgingly over time.

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At present, by contrast, we do not have a shooting civil war--not yet, anyway (unless one believes that the shooting of Rep. Steve Scalise--in June of 2017--represents the beginning of such a war).
shooting of MLK and JFK, the students a Berkley, WACO, Randy Weaver's Family, might have to be in there it seem to me. looking at the BIGGER picture. not just one partisan and current skirmish, seems "the war" has been on going.
Not to mention the loss of constitutional freedoms, imposed and celebrated by both Rs and Ds under the umbrella of "security" or "promoting the general welfare" .

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But it seems increasingly likely that this could yet occur.
The left in this country--especially the hard left--no longer believes in due process and the rule of law. In fact, it does not even pretend to.
the right doesn't either. it promotes torture of "suspects" and indefinite dentition, and too often excuses gov't actors killing innocent civilians. Without trials or "due process".
and are upset when others protest such actions.

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It appears to believe, instead, in the rule of the mob.
In other words: anarchy.
neither Ds or Rs want mob rule they both want THEIR RULE.
Not the constitution, not objective justice under the law. Not Freedoms as the founders outlined and provided for.

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No, not all liberals--especially not thoughtful ones--fall neatly into this category. Alan Dershowitz, for example--and Jonathan Turley (both top legal minds)--do not fit this mold at all.
Agreed the same goes for some conservatives, Ron Paul, John Stosel, Judge Nepolitano

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Increasingly, however, the American left--and especially young, passionate people--seem to believe that if they cannot get their preferred way, well, then they ought to turn to mob rule.
I heard more than once that if Trump didn't win there might be a "revolution" Go to any conservative "patriot" or survivalist web site and see how much info you'll get about "revolution" and succession, and war IF things don't go theire way.

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The Bolsheviks of about 100 years ago would have been proud of them.
the left objectively have worse Ideas but both sides tend to lean toward HEAVY handed gov't control of the people. they just differ on what or who should be controlled.

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At any rate, it all leads we to wonder: If so many people no longer have faith in our fundamental institutions, are we really far from societal collapse--or even genuine civil war?
IMO people don't have faith in the CONCEPT of Freedom or the Constitution.
FEAR and Control drives both sides. While the Oligarchs ride both sides fears to the real seats of power and control. and the rank and file of both side end up with thinking that it's ONLY the "otherside" to blame for less freedoms.

But the Lefts rhetoric and irrationality at this point is more dangerous. But like the right they don't get they are forging theire own chains when they attack the freedoms of others, they end up ultimately destroying themselves as well.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:26 AM
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Default Re: Is The American Experiment now dying?

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Caused by the hypocritical flaw of promoting 'liberty for all' while enslaving millions. Many predicted the war over the issue even at the outset of the nation. It didn't have to be but some where to entrenched in the "peculiar institution" to see it.
This is sometimes referred to--correctly, I believe--as America's "original sin."

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shooting of MLK and JFK, the students a Berkley, WACO, Randy Weaver's Family, might have to be in there it seem to me. looking at the BIGGER picture. not just one partisan and current skirmish, seems "the war" has been on going.
I have no intention of diminishing the seriousness of any of the above. But at these times, our country was not so bitterly divided; nowadays, it appears that we could be on the brink of a civil war.

It has been well said that there are only two methods of resolving any conflict--through reason or through force--and it appears that the American left is no longer interested in the former.

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neither Ds or Rs want mob rule they both want THEIR RULE.
Many of us want only the rule of law.

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I heard more than once that if Trump didn't win there might be a "revolution" Go to any conservative "patriot" or survivalist web site and see how much info you'll get about "revolution" and succession, and war IF things don't go theire way.
No doubt, there are some who felt this way; and there are probably some who still do, as regarding the presidential election of 2020.

But they remain on the fringe. I doubt that many mainstream Republicans feel this way. (I do hope you will not use, as rebuttal, the incident in Charlottesville, Virginia, in August of 2017. Neo-Nazis and Ku Kluxers are hardly tantamount to Republicans.)

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IMO people don't have faith in the CONCEPT of Freedom or the Constitution.
Sadly, this is probably true.

And too many people have defined freedom essentially as FDR did: as a "right" to something from the government, rather than as a right to be left alone by the government.
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Old 10-10-2018, 11:54 AM
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Default Re: Is The American Experiment now dying?

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This is sometimes referred to--correctly, I believe--as America's "original sin."



I have no intention of diminishing the seriousness of any of the above. But at these times, our country was not so bitterly divided; nowadays, it appears that we could be on the brink of a civil war.

It has been well said that there are only two methods of resolving any conflict--through reason or through force--and it appears that the American left is no longer interested in the former.



Many of us want only the rule of law.



No doubt, there are some who felt this way; and there are probably some who still do, as regarding the presidential election of 2020.

But they remain on the fringe. I doubt that many mainstream Republicans feel this way. (I do hope you will not use, as rebuttal, the incident in Charlottesville, Virginia, in August of 2017. Neo-Nazis and Ku Kluxers are hardly tantamount to Republicans.)



Sadly, this is probably true.

And too many people have defined freedom essentially as FDR did: as a "right" to something from the government, rather than as a right to be left alone by the government.


There really is no comparison between the militant left and the alt right neo Nazi types. The militant left has the Democrat politicians on their side, and even the police in some cities.

Also they have George Soros backing them financially. The alt right has the endorsement and backing of no one.

This stuff is going on all the time in some cities, but the MSM says nothing about it, therefore encouraging and supporting it in a way.

This was 2 days ago, did anyone hear about it? Of course not. The MSM only tells people what they want them to know and think

https://www.redstate.com/brandon_mor...-intervention/
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Old 10-10-2018, 06:33 PM
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Default Re: Is The American Experiment now dying?

Former Attorney General (under Barack Obama), Eric Holder, has now chimed in:

"Michelle [Obama] used to say, 'When they go low, we go high.' No. When they go low [according to the Democrats' definition of the term], we kick them."

So much, I guess, for even a modicum of civility...
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:33 PM
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Default Re: Is The American Experiment now dying?

No experiment is expected to run perfectly, especially not one running for over 200 years.

Just remember, none of what's going on, past or present or future, is self-correcting. Nothing is there to gently push the country back into some perceived political or social equilibrium, no matter whether you feel things are going right or wrong.

Vote.
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Old 10-11-2018, 09:37 AM
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Default Re: Is The American Experiment now dying?

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No experiment is expected to run perfectly, especially not one running for over 200 years.

Just remember, none of what's going on, past or present or future, is self-correcting. Nothing is there to gently push the country back into some perceived political or social equilibrium, no matter whether you feel things are going right or wrong.

Vote.
I do not disagree with anything you have said.

Nonetheless, that may not fix the problem.

Some on the left have indicated that if they do not get their way at the ballot box, they will continue to throw a tantrum. (Yes, that last part is my own words).

I think we may be headed either for a second civil war or--as some have suggested--a breakup (with the blue states forming one country, and the red states forming another country--with, perhaps, the purple states forming yet another country.)

The problem with the latter solution, of course, is that conservatives caught in blue states, or liberals caught in red states, would obviously be unhappy...
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:02 AM
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Default Re: Is The American Experiment now dying?

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I do not disagree with anything you have said.

Nonetheless, that may not fix the problem.

Some on the left have indicated that if they do not get their way at the ballot box, they will continue to throw a tantrum. (Yes, that last part is my own words).

I think we may be headed either for a second civil war or--as some have suggested--a breakup (with the blue states forming one country, and the red states forming another country--with, perhaps, the purple states forming yet another country.)

The problem with the latter solution, of course, is that conservatives caught in blue states, or liberals caught in red states, would obviously be unhappy...
Maybe we need a good old fashioned world war to get us all back on the same team? maybe not! I don't think it would work out like the last two, people are not willing
to sacrifice anything these days.
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:07 AM
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Default Re: Is The American Experiment now dying?

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I do not disagree with anything you have said.

Nonetheless, that may not fix the problem.

Some on the left have indicated that if they do not get their way at the ballot box, they will continue to throw a tantrum. (Yes, that last part is my own words).

I think we may be headed either for a second civil war or--as some have suggested--a breakup (with the blue states forming one country, and the red states forming another country--with, perhaps, the purple states forming yet another country.)

The problem with the latter solution, of course, is that conservatives caught in blue states, or liberals caught in red states, would obviously be unhappy...
Son let them throw a tantrum. They will do that no matter what.

I tend to agree on the civil war. At my age, I thought that I would not live long enough to see a civil war. Now I'm not so sure.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:39 AM
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Default Re: Is The American Experiment now dying?

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Originally Posted by WallyWager View Post
No experiment is expected to run perfectly, especially not one running for over 200 years.

Just remember, none of what's going on, past or present or future, is self-correcting. Nothing is there to gently push the country back into some perceived political or social equilibrium, no matter whether you feel things are going right or wrong.

Vote.
It has never run smoothly from the beginning. Even Washington had political conflicts, most notably with Jefferson.

The difference today is one of the two major political parties is dedicated to a campaign of Resistance that is toxic to the Republic. Anarchy and its handmaiden violence is acceptable or even encouraged as a substitute for governance. Harassment of members of Congress in public by the mob and even attempting to storm their offices by force is not merely accepted, it is encouraged. There doesn't seem to be a comparable time in American history.
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