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Open Discussion Discuss Police to search for guns in homes at the General Forum; Originally Posted by GetAClue We are speaking about 2 different things here. You seem to insinuate that because I don't ...

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Old 03-29-2018, 08:02 PM
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Default Re: Police to search for guns in homes

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
We are speaking about 2 different things here. You seem to insinuate that because I don't have a problem with the legality of the request to search, that I also don't have a problem with heavy handed tactics that may or may not be employed if the request is denied.

And I am not promoting any of what you typed. All I am saying is that the police are legally allowed to request to search a home. I have no problem if they do that upon suspicion of wrong doings happening either in the home or by a member of the home. That does not however mean that I condone the misuse of their authority to take it beyond that step.
I merely pointed out the Boston program of dispatching squads of plainclothes officers to search homes on suspicion provides an environment ripe for abuse. Officers are going to be expected to conduct searches. How they get to the homeowner giving their permission is up to them, the politicians don't want to know.

There is no suggestion anyone condones the police using coercive tactics to get permission to search but creating a promiscuous search environment guarantees abuse.
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Old 03-30-2018, 12:03 PM
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Default Re: Police to search for guns in homes

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Police to search for guns in homes

Sounds good to me...

Of course there are concerns, but I don't think they override the concerns of the current situation...
As long as proper consent is given I don't have a problem with it. Although if the search is stated to be limited to just guns but plain sight or other discovery is made of criminal circumstances or activity, can that -outside the scope- be used to obtain a warrant for that circumstance or activity?

No matter what, it's not like what Clinton wanted to do back in the 90's, broad warrantless sweeps for guns in public housing.
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Old 03-30-2018, 12:35 PM
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Default Re: Police to search for guns in homes

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Originally Posted by Jeerleader View Post
As long as proper consent is given I don't have a problem with it. Although if the search is stated to be limited to just guns but plain sight or other discovery is made of criminal circumstances or activity, can that -outside the scope- be used to obtain a warrant for that circumstance or activity?...
That's the problem, with so many laws on the books there's more than enough to find something to arrest someone for.
It's like cops pulling people over, they can make up something to get you into the system if nothing else.

On the whole it just does not add up to a winning proposition for someone living in a low income situation to invite police into your home to "look around".
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Old 04-13-2018, 07:46 AM
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Default Re: Police to search for guns in homes

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Police to search for guns in homes

Sounds good to me...

Of course there are concerns, but I don't think they override the concerns of the current situation...
I agree - it's a voluntary search allowed by the parent/guardians of minors to find firearms that the parent/guardian wouldn't want the minor to possess and that the minor has no right to possess.

It doesn't override many other concerns, just like improved gun regulations won't prevent mass murder alone, but it chips away at the problem in a small way that will ultimately prevent some crimes committed with firearms.

No one's rights are violated and law enforcement is offering the concession that they won't charge the minor because the search is consensual by the responsible parent/guardian of the minor.
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Old 04-13-2018, 07:58 AM
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Default Re: Police to search for guns in homes

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Originally Posted by Jeerleader View Post
As long as proper consent is given I don't have a problem with it. Although if the search is stated to be limited to just guns but plain sight or other discovery is made of criminal circumstances or activity, can that -outside the scope- be used to obtain a warrant for that circumstance or activity?

No matter what, it's not like what Clinton wanted to do back in the 90's, broad warrantless sweeps for guns in public housing.
I'm not sure what other "criminal activity" is being referred to but could assume illegal drug possession could be found. Without the warrant the finding of the illegal drugs, that law enforcement would be required to confiscate, can't be used as evidence because the voluntary search didn't authorize the police to search of or confiscate illegal drugs. I believe that under the Fourth Amendment that would require a search warrant that the officers do not possess.

I don't recall Clinton's proposal but.....

The "landlord - tenant" occupancy agreement stipulated that no firearms could be possessed in the dwelling and the landlord has written authority to enter the dwelling based upon the occupancy agreement.

If the federal government, as the landlord, already has written authority voluntarily granted by the tenant to enter the dwelling why would the federal government require a search warrant to enter the dwelling to verify compliance based upon the conditions and authority of the occupancy agreement?
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Old 04-13-2018, 08:10 AM
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Default Re: Police to search for guns in homes

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I'm not sure what other "criminal activity" is being referred to but could assume illegal drug possession could be found. Without the warrant the finding of the illegal drugs, that law enforcement would be required to confiscate, can't be used as evidence because the voluntary search didn't authorize the police to search of or confiscate illegal drugs. I believe that under the Fourth Amendment that would require a search warrant that the officers do not possess.

I don't recall Clinton's proposal but.....

The "landlord - tenant" occupancy agreement stipulated that no firearms could be possessed in the dwelling and the landlord has written authority to enter the dwelling based upon the occupancy agreement.

If the federal government, as the landlord, already has written authority voluntarily granted by the tenant to enter the dwelling why would the federal government require a search warrant to enter the dwelling to verify compliance based upon the conditions and authority of the occupancy agreement?
If a cop is in your home ...or even if you're pulled over by the police in your car... if they see anything illegal they can confiscate it for evidence and change you with a crime.
If they are invited in or have a warrant to look at/for certain items whatever else they see in plain sight is fair game.

And by default these cops are invited in to poke around under beds, between couch cushions, inside closets , boxes etc to search for "guns". If they find 2 "joints" then the kid and the parents can be charged with drug possession or other crimes.

It's happened. Civil libertarians have had to defend church going grandmas charged with drug possess after these "helpful" police visit.

Plus it's not above the police to lie to people "we want to remove guns" when it's actually a drug sting, or a search for a suspect, or evidence of other crimes or other reasons.
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Old 04-13-2018, 08:34 AM
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Default Re: Police to search for guns in homes




Alternatively Community policing where police actually get to know the neighborhood, and the people in it. and gain trust. then they'll see the troubled kids and be able to keep an eye on specific issues there. Also parents ... since they are talking to the cops fairly regularly anyway as community members, may ask for help with some teens or others.
But to just make SWEEPING Searches of every home you can... that's a serious H3ll NO IMO.
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:57 AM
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Default Re: Police to search for guns in homes

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Old 04-13-2018, 10:09 AM
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Default Re: Police to search for guns in homes

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
I merely pointed out the Boston program of dispatching squads of plainclothes officers to search homes on suspicion provides an environment ripe for abuse.

There is no suggestion anyone condones the police using coercive tactics to get permission to search but creating a promiscuous search environment guarantees abuse.
I agree. Although I don't have a problem with the concept of voluntary searches, I can see the possibility of a slippery slope - what is voluntary today could become mandatory tomorrow.
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Old 04-16-2018, 01:04 PM
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Default Re: Police to search for guns in homes

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
I'm not sure what other "criminal activity" is being referred to but could assume illegal drug possession could be found. Without the warrant the finding of the illegal drugs, that law enforcement would be required to confiscate, can't be used as evidence because the voluntary search didn't authorize the police to search of or confiscate illegal drugs. I believe that under the Fourth Amendment that would require a search warrant that the officers do not possess.

I don't recall Clinton's proposal but.....

The "landlord - tenant" occupancy agreement stipulated that no firearms could be possessed in the dwelling and the landlord has written authority to enter the dwelling based upon the occupancy agreement.

If the federal government, as the landlord, already has written authority voluntarily granted by the tenant to enter the dwelling why would the federal government require a search warrant to enter the dwelling to verify compliance based upon the conditions and authority of the occupancy agreement?
Complete inability to understand law. If a police officer finds anything criminally actionable in a warranted or permitted search, irregardless of the reasons for the initial search, it is permissible. That includes whatever the LEO's brought in in their pockets and 'drop' in place.
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