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Open Discussion Discuss There will be no Trump collapse. at the General Forum; Originally Posted by Schochite Yeah, but even prayer won't make "I hate Trump" a winning cause for the democrats. You ...

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-08-2018, 07:09 AM
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Default Re: There will be no Trump collapse.

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Originally Posted by Schochite View Post
Yeah, but even prayer won't make "I hate Trump" a winning cause for the democrats.
You might be surprised (I know I was) how many normally even keeled reasonable people turned into 'resistance' and Trump haters.

The man is a twit with an ego the size of Texas. BUT he is exactly what most politicians fear - a non-politician. And unfortunately, many on the left side of things (I won't call them liberals, that's too vague a term) see him undoing things the left has been pushing for for years.

While I do lean right on some things, I lean left on others. What Trump is doing can't truly be judged failure or success until 5 or 10 years from now, but the Hate crowd has it judged before it even happens.

They need a salable platform. IMO, just as with Hillary's all negative campaign, the Hate campaign isn't going to work.
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Old 06-08-2018, 08:01 AM
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Default Re: There will be no Trump collapse.

Democrats and their media toadies have been doing the chicken little dance since the day Trump won the election. From the fake news dossier to the porn star heroine of the Resistance the Democrats slime machine has been working overtime to push their false narrative of hate. The poisonous political atmosphere has become so toxic that even a lukewarm reminder of Trump's resurgence like the OP must be couched in denials like Trump benefited from timing on the economy and the stock market is stalled, stalled at nearly 25K. And of course the obligatory invocation of Ahab Mueller's witch hunt as a sort of crusade that might miraculously rescue us from Trump.
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Old 06-08-2018, 09:20 AM
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Default Re: There will be no Trump collapse.

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
They need a salable platform. IMO, just as with Hillary's all negative campaign, the Hate campaign isn't going to work.
The "Hate campaign" is a mythical conspiracy theory of the Republicans because that's not what we've been seeing Democrats do in the recent special elections and primaries. The Trump Administration has brought new Democrats into the political arena that aren't motivated by hate of Donald Trump but instead are motivated by the failure of Republicans to address the issues of importance to Americans and the abandonment of long held Republican positions so that they could support Donald Trump.

Trump's power has been that over 80% of Republicans support him in spite of his failures and the harm he's doing to America. Unfortunately the on-going scandals, almost too numerous to keep track of, are sucking the wind out of reporting on the more common harmful actions under the Trump administration. Trump has taken the bar so low that issues that would receive headline coverage for weeks on end, like the destruction of our environmental protections by Scott Pruett, are lucky to get a paragraph on page 7 because of the 15 or more ethics scandals that Pruett is being investigate for. The Pruitt scandal coverage take up the space where Pruitt is selling out our environment to the oil and coal companies would normally be.

But the "new Democrats" aren't focused on Trump. The "new Democrats" while not carrying a "national message" are addressing the issues important to the voters in their districts and states. They're also promoting a grass roots effort to bring new voters into the mix.

The problem for the Republicans is that while Trump has over 80% approval from Republicans many are already discouraged because Trump hasn't really fulfilled much in the way of the promises he's made. They continue to support Trump but aren't as motivated to turn out in the midterm elections like the Democrats this time around. When we address the independents there's not going to be the "Anti-Hillary" support that Trump received (with the help of the Russians).

What we're seeing, based upon the primaries and special elections so far this year, is that more Democrats are receiving more votes overall than Republicans.

But we won't know until November how it all turns out. Democrats are using their long held practice of "enfranchisement" where they focus on voter registration and getting people out to vote that's the opposite of the long time Republican dependency on disenfranchisement because the lower the voter turnout the more it favors Republicans.

None of this is based upon a Hate Trump campaign by Democrats that have long since accepted the Trump presidency. Today's new Democrats addressing the real issues with real solutions that Trump conned voters into believing he'd address when he had no idea or plan to address those issues.

The New Democrats aren't the Democrats of Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi anymore. They're much better than that and Republicans need to be concerned about mislabeling them as Hate Trump Democrats because that's not the issue they're running on.
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Old 06-08-2018, 09:28 AM
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Default Re: There will be no Trump collapse.

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The "Hate campaign" is a mythical conspiracy theory of the Republicans because that's not what we've been seeing Democrats do in the resent special elections. The Trump Administration has brought new Democrats into the political arena that aren't motivated by hate of Donald Trump but instead are motivated by failure of Republicans to address the issues of importance to Americans and the abandonment of long held Republican positions so that they could support Donald Trump.

Trump's power has been that over 80% of Republicans support him in spite of his failures and the harm he's doing to America. Unfortunately the on-going scandals, almost too numerous to keep track of, are sucking the wind out of reporting on the more common harmful actions under the Trump administration. Trump has taken the bar so low that issues that would receive headline coverage for weeks on end, like the destruction of our environmental protections by Scott Pruett, are lucky to get a paragraph on page 7 because of the 15 or more ethics scandals that Pruett is being investigate for. The Pruitt scandal coverage take up the space where Pruitt is selling out our environment to the oil and coal companies would normally be.

But the "new Democrats" aren't focused on Trump. The "new Democrats" while not carrying a "national message" are addressing the issues important to the voters in their districts and states. They're also promoting a grass roots effort to bring new voters into the mix.

The problem for the Republicans is that while Trump has over 80% approval from Republicans many are already discouraged because Trump hasn't really fulfilled much in the way of the promises he's made. They continue to support Trump but aren't as motivated to turn out in the midterm elections like the Democrats this time around. When we address the independents there's not going to be the "Anti-Hillary" support that Trump received (with the help of the Russians).

What we're seeing, based upon the primaries and special elections so far this year, is that more Democrats are receiving more votes overall than Republicans.

But we won't know until November how it all turns out. Democrats are using their long held practice of "enfranchisement" where they focus on voter registration and getting people out to vote that's the opposite of the long time Republican dependency on disenfranchisement because the lower the voter turnout the more it favors Republicans.

None of this is based upon a Hate Trump campaign by Democrats that have long since accepted the Trump presidency. Today's new Democrats addressing the real issues with real solutions that Trump conned voters into believing he'd address when he had no idea or plan to address those issues.

The New Democrats aren't the Democrats of Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi anymore. They're much better than that and Republicans need to be concerned about mislabeling them as Hate Trump Democrats because that's not the issue they're running on.
I have a number of close family relatives that are part of the 'resistance', and it is still all about Hate Trump. As I said, it actually surprised me that normally even keeled people would take such a stance.

There are any number of local Democrats that are using a 'Reclamation of Democratic Direction' platform, and it's directed at preventing/undoing anything that Trump has done.

Regardless of party, those with the hate so strong in them that either Trump undoing Obama, or anyone undoing Trump is good for that reason, is part of the problem. I would like to think that Trump might carry through with putting America first, but we shall see.
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Old 06-08-2018, 09:29 AM
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Default Re: There will be no Trump collapse.

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Originally Posted by Schochite View Post
Yeah, but even prayer won't make "I hate Trump" a winning cause for the democrats.
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Old 06-08-2018, 10:10 AM
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Default Re: There will be no Trump collapse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The "Hate campaign" is a mythical conspiracy theory of the Republicans because that's not what we've been seeing Democrats do in the recent special elections and primaries. The Trump Administration has brought new Democrats into the political arena that aren't motivated by hate of Donald Trump but instead are motivated by the failure of Republicans to address the issues of importance to Americans and the abandonment of long held Republican positions so that they could support Donald Trump.

Trump's power has been that over 80% of Republicans support him in spite of his failures and the harm he's doing to America. Unfortunately the on-going scandals, almost too numerous to keep track of, are sucking the wind out of reporting on the more common harmful actions under the Trump administration. Trump has taken the bar so low that issues that would receive headline coverage for weeks on end, like the destruction of our environmental protections by Scott Pruett, are lucky to get a paragraph on page 7 because of the 15 or more ethics scandals that Pruett is being investigate for. The Pruitt scandal coverage take up the space where Pruitt is selling out our environment to the oil and coal companies would normally be.

But the "new Democrats" aren't focused on Trump. The "new Democrats" while not carrying a "national message" are addressing the issues important to the voters in their districts and states. They're also promoting a grass roots effort to bring new voters into the mix.

The problem for the Republicans is that while Trump has over 80% approval from Republicans many are already discouraged because Trump hasn't really fulfilled much in the way of the promises he's made. They continue to support Trump but aren't as motivated to turn out in the midterm elections like the Democrats this time around. When we address the independents there's not going to be the "Anti-Hillary" support that Trump received (with the help of the Russians).

What we're seeing, based upon the primaries and special elections so far this year, is that more Democrats are receiving more votes overall than Republicans.

But we won't know until November how it all turns out. Democrats are using their long held practice of "enfranchisement" where they focus on voter registration and getting people out to vote that's the opposite of the long time Republican dependency on disenfranchisement because the lower the voter turnout the more it favors Republicans.

None of this is based upon a Hate Trump campaign by Democrats that have long since accepted the Trump presidency. Today's new Democrats addressing the real issues with real solutions that Trump conned voters into believing he'd address when he had no idea or plan to address those issues.

The New Democrats aren't the Democrats of Hillary Clinton or Nancy Pelosi anymore. They're much better than that and Republicans need to be concerned about mislabeling them as Hate Trump Democrats because that's not the issue they're running on.
Well the idea that the I hate Trump movement is just a mythical conspiracy theory of the republicans is a rather novel construct. Good luck selling that proverbial bridge in your proverbial state.

Your second paragraph attempts to detail just one supposed casualty of the non stop Trump attacks in the news media, but it reads to me like you are trying to give the Trump obsessed media a pass. They are just too busy doing their jobs reporting, there is so much to report! Ha ha right, in a previous post I spoke about a conversation I had with a co-worker wherein we speculated (only half joking) that a new Trump scandal/attack headline appears about every two hours. And has been 24/7 for 16 months now. But I can't blame you for choosing to wear rose hued glasses with regard to the actions of the news media. It is not a pleasant picture and if you take what the public's perception of the news media and congress was before Trump's inauguration, well let's just say neither has done themselves any favors since then. Rather the opposite.

I've no idea who these new "new Democrats" are supposed to be but your argument about what we are seeing based upon the primaries and special elections so far also appears to have come from rose hued glasses too. And of course ignores what has been occurring in those races. Particularly with regard to republican turn out and particularly with regard to the promised "blue wave" which would have to by nature contain these new "new democrats" you speak of. Frankly this new "new democrats" angle you are pushing is more mythical sounding than the idea that the I hate Trump approach is myth. Nice try though.

Democrats have long since accepted that Trump is president? Wait a minute, holy crap! You've gone and bolted or super glued rose colored goggles to your head haven't you? Don't do that, it is going to hurt when you finally have to take them off!

We've been hearing about the so called "new democrats" since 1988. Bad news is that Hilary and Pelosi were a integral part of this "new democrats" movement and they are still in control of the party. While it is true that we won't know anything for sure until November, thus far the predicted outcomes by left leaning prognosticators about the blue wave and republican voters supposed lax participation has not panned out. Which is why one should never count their eggs before they have hatched. Particularly if one is ignoring what has occurred in primaries and special elections so far.
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Old 06-08-2018, 10:24 AM
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Default Re: There will be no Trump collapse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schochite View Post
Well the idea that the I hate Trump movement is just a mythical conspiracy theory of the republicans is a rather novel construct. Good luck selling that proverbial bridge in your proverbial state.

Your second paragraph attempts to detail just one supposed casualty of the non stop Trump attacks in the news media, but it reads to me like you are trying to give the Trump obsessed media a pass. They are just too busy doing their jobs reporting, there is so much to report! Ha ha right, in a previous post I spoke about a conversation I had with a co-worker wherein we speculated (only half joking) that a new Trump scandal/attack headline appears about every two hours. And has been 24/7 for 16 months now. But I can't blame you for choosing to wear rose hued glasses with regard to the actions of the news media. It is not a pleasant picture and if you take what the public's perception of the news media and congress was before Trump's inauguration, well let's just say neither has done themselves any favors since then. Rather the opposite.

I've no idea who these new "new Democrats" are supposed to be but your argument about what we are seeing based upon the primaries and special elections so far also appears to have come from rose hued glasses too. And of course ignores what has been occurring in those races. Particularly with regard to republican turn out and particularly with regard to the promised "blue wave" which would have to by nature contain these new "new democrats" you speak of. Frankly this new "new democrats" angle you are pushing is more mythical sounding than the idea that the I hate Trump approach is myth. Nice try though.

Democrats have long since accepted that Trump is president? Wait a minute, holy crap! You've gone and bolted or super glued rose colored goggles to your head haven't you? Don't do that, it is going to hurt when you finally have to take them off!

We've been hearing about the so called "new democrats" since 1988. Bad news is that Hilary and Pelosi were a integral part of this "new democrats" movement and they are still in control of the party. While it is true that we won't know anything for sure until November, thus far the predicted outcomes by left leaning prognosticators about the blue wave and republican voters supposed lax participation has not panned out. Which is why one should never count their eggs before they have hatched. Particularly if one is ignoring what has occurred in primaries and special elections so far.
I think a lot of these " New Democrats" are actually old hippies. They are not wasting time with telling anyone why they should be elected, their efforts are 100% focused on Trump hate, and you are right, this is why they are losing.

But being good hippies, they feel that if they say there is a blue wave, and think positive, that they will prevail without doing anything constructive.
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Old 06-08-2018, 11:24 AM
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Default Re: There will be no Trump collapse.

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I think a lot of these " New Democrats" are actually old hippies. They are not wasting time with telling anyone why they should be elected, their efforts are 100% focused on Trump hate, and you are right, this is why they are losing.

But being good hippies, they feel that if they say there is a blue wave, and think positive, that they will prevail without doing anything constructive.
I don't think these new "new democrats" exist and if they do many of them fill the ranks of ANTIFA. And are the folks that are running around on college campuses shutting down free speech and comedians (who won't go near college campuses anymore) spouting off their tribalism and turning to identity politics as their primary means of communication. Peppered with frequent cries of "isimsitous" as in everyone is a racist homophobic antil Islamic anti immigration bigot, etc, etc. Guess that is what passes for hippie in 2018.

Now here is a funny aspect of Shiva's argument. I agree with him that the mews media's singular obsession has led them to ignore far more pressing and important news stories daily. In particular developments in the Mid East and Europe get almost no airplay or time. But the idea that the Scott Pruitt story has not or is not getting covered is unadulterated bunkum. In fact it gets a lot of coverage owing to how he is a Trump administration appointee, that guarantees you 24/7 blanket coverage. Everyone from Trevor Noah to NPR is covering the story daily, often to the detriment of other in my opinion more important stories. I mean even Fox News is reporting on the Pruitt stories, stories as in plural.
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Old 06-08-2018, 01:46 PM
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Default Re: There will be no Trump collapse.

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Originally Posted by Schochite View Post
Well I'll say the following, without detracting from Trump's accomplishments so far. We are in about our eighth year of recovery and Trump in addition to doing some positive things, also benefits by his timing upon coming into office.

Trump could always implode too, but I get the feeling he won't. The TDS crowd has tried to burn him in the crucible but really only served to strengthen his hand and his standing, so completely lunatic and 24/7 is their non stop shrieking. And as I said earlier today, I expect they will only shriek more and more as we approach the next election. I don't think the DNC has a chance of stealing the house and senate. For that very reason. I hate Trump is not a really smart political platform.

Or anything much else either.
Where it not for a "massive Spendulus bill" and Obamacare", that 8 year recovery would have only taken two years. And the left could have taken some credit for that. Instead they let the nation languish and suffer in their attempt to prove we NEEEEEEEEEEEED the gubmit to survive, instead of the other way around.

When the banks ad big business get the government to fund the recovery, these entities take the money and their sweet time. All at the expense of the people. If they have to do it to do it on their own, the find a way to make jt happen fast. Usually by eating some of their own.
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Old 06-08-2018, 02:11 PM
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Default Re: There will be no Trump collapse.

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Where it not for a "massive Spendulus bill" and Obamacare", that 8 year recovery would have only taken two years. And the left could have taken some credit for that. Instead they let the nation languish and suffer in their attempt to prove we NEEEEEEEEEEEED the gubmit to survive, instead of the other way around.

When the banks ad big business get the government to fund the recovery, these entities take the money and their sweet time. All at the expense of the people. If they have to do it to do it on their own, the find a way to make jt happen fast. Usually by eating some of their own.
Exactly. The best thing the government can do to help recovery during a recession is the cut government spending, taxes and regulations. During down periods, there is enough stress on the economy such that the government should not add to it, but look to become an even smaller entity and removing it's tentacles from wallets of businesses trying to survive.

A great example of this is the depression of 1837. This recession was very deep and yet the US came out of it in less than a year. They did so because President Van Buren slashed government spending nearly in half and lowered taxes. This allowed private industry to increase production and bring the US out of the depression.

Here is a good read on the subject:
Depression Before the Great Depression | rayharvey.org
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