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Open Discussion Discuss Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy) at the General Forum; The GRU (Russian intelligence) was responsible for the hacking of the DNC/Hillary Clinton emails. This is routine espionage that all ...

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Old 05-21-2018, 09:16 AM
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Default Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy)

The GRU (Russian intelligence) was responsible for the hacking of the DNC/Hillary Clinton emails. This is routine espionage that all countries fundamentally engage in. It is a criminal act rarely or never prosecuted.

It is against the US election laws for any foreigner or foreign government to try to influence the US elections.

It's an established fact that Russia was responsible for a social media propaganda campaign and the release of hacked (illegally obtained) DNC/Clinton campaign emails in an effort to influence the US presidential election for the benefit of Donald Trump. This act is codified as "conspiracy against the United States" under the law.

Any attempt by a US person or group to secure the assistance of a foreign government or person, the criminal act of conspiracy against the United States, is to enter into that conspiracy with the foreign government or person. Just asking for that assistance is a criminal act regardless of whether the foreign government or person carries out any intended actions to effect the election. The "conspiracy" exists with or without execution of the conspiracy.

On June 9, 2016, senior members of the Trump campaign including Donald Trump Jr met in the Trump Tower with representatives of the Russian government to secure access to the DNC/Clinton campaign emails that the GRU (Russian intelligence) had in it's possession. This was clearly an effort by the Trump campaign to involve a foreign government in the 2016 Presidential election. The Trump campaign became a "co-conspirator" in the criminal act of "conspiracy against the United States" by the Russians. Within days of the Trump campaign seeking to obtain access to the emails the GRU made those emails available to the Trump campaign with publication by WikiLeaks. The "conspiracy" was successfully executed between the Trump campaign and the Russians.

On Aug 3, 2016, members of the Trump campaign including Donald Trump Jr had another meeting in Trump Tower and this time is was about soliciting possible assistance from Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates that were eager to help Trump get elected. In this case it involved an already developed multimillion-dollar proposal for a social media manipulation effort to help elect Mr. Trump. While we're unsure of whether any part of this social media campaign was ever executed the mere solicitation by the Trump campaign established their role as a "co-conspirator against the United States" with foreign countries.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/19/u...nce-zamel.html

https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/14/polit...ing/index.html

Those claiming that there's no evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians are simply lying about the truth. The Trump campaign was actively soliciting assistance from Russian and other foreign countries to commit the criminal act of "conspiracy against the United States" by seeking their influence to effect the election on behalf of Donald Trump.
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:54 AM
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Default Re: Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The GRU (Russian intelligence) was responsible for the hacking of the DNC/Hillary Clinton emails. This is routine espionage that all countries fundamentally engage in. It is a criminal act rarely or never prosecuted.

It is against the US election laws for any foreigner or foreign government to try to influence the US elections.

It's an established fact that Russia was responsible for a social media propaganda campaign and the release of hacked (illegally obtained) DNC/Clinton campaign emails in an effort to influence the US presidential election for the benefit of Donald Trump. This act is codified as "conspiracy against the United States" under the law.

Any attempt by a US person or group to secure the assistance of a foreign government or person, the criminal act of conspiracy against the United States, is to enter into that conspiracy with the foreign government or person. Just asking for that assistance is a criminal act regardless of whether the foreign government or person carries out any intended actions to effect the election. The "conspiracy" exists with or without execution of the conspiracy.

On June 9, 2016, senior members of the Trump campaign including Donald Trump Jr met in the Trump Tower with representatives of the Russian government to secure access to the DNC/Clinton campaign emails that the GRU (Russian intelligence) had in it's possession. This was clearly an effort by the Trump campaign to involve a foreign government in the 2016 Presidential election. The Trump campaign became a "co-conspirator" in the criminal act of "conspiracy against the United States" by the Russians. Within days of the Trump campaign seeking to obtain access to the emails the GRU made those emails available to the Trump campaign with publication by WikiLeaks. The "conspiracy" was successfully executed between the Trump campaign and the Russians.

On Aug 3, 2016, members of the Trump campaign including Donald Trump Jr had another meeting in Trump Tower and this time is was about soliciting possible assistance from Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates that were eager to help Trump get elected. In this case it involved an already developed multimillion-dollar proposal for a social media manipulation effort to help elect Mr. Trump. While we're unsure of whether any part of this social media campaign was ever executed the mere solicitation by the Trump campaign established their role as a "co-conspirator against the United States" with foreign countries.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/19/u...nce-zamel.html

https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/14/polit...ing/index.html

Those claiming that there's no evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians are simply lying about the truth. The Trump campaign was actively soliciting assistance from Russian and other foreign countries to commit the criminal act of "conspiracy against the United States" by seeking their influence to effect the election on behalf of Donald Trump.
There is rumor and partisan conjecture of Russia collusion with the Trump campaign. Mueller's witch hunt has been going on for over a year without producing evidence of this highly partisan smear.

The servers allegedly hacked by the Russian boogey men were never independently examined. Comey of the predetermined exoneration letter simply took the word of DNC hired consulting firm the Russians did it. That's a true FBI investigation if you are a Resistance zealot.

When informed their servers were hacked Democrats continued to use them during the campaign. When informed the Russians were supposed to be interfering with the election President Obama neglected to inform the public. Whoever actually hacked the servers or interfered with the election it was of no concern to Democrats until Hillary lost.

Wikileaks made the hacked emails available to the Trump campaign and the world wide media and anyone with a connected Internet browser at the same time. Yet the charge is they did it to help the Trump campaign. Absurd.

The alleged Russian social media campaign focused on issues not helping Trump. In fact there is not a shred of public evidence the Russians did anything but try to undermine confidence in the election. Thanks to Democrats they succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.

From CNN, notoriously hateful towards Trump, about the meeting with the Emiratis

Quote:
Alan Futerfas, a lawyer representing Trump Jr., told CNN in a statement "Prior to the 2016 election, Donald Trump Jr. recalls a meeting with Eric (sic) Prince, George Nader, and another individual who may be Joel Zamel. They pitched Mr. Trump Jr. on a social media platform or marketing strategy. He was not interested and that was the end of it. "
CNN has previously reported that Nader was stopped and questioned by FBI agents at Washington Dulles International Airport in January and is cooperating with special counsel Robert Mueller's probe into Russian interference in the 2016 election and any links between Trump campaign associates and the Russian government, two sources familiar with the matter told CNN.
A lawyer for Nader, Kathryn Ruemmler, told the Times he has "fully cooperated with the special counsel's investigation and will continue to do so." Ruemmler did not immediately return a request for comment from CNN.
CNN has also reported that Nader attended a December 2016 meeting in New York between Emirati officials and members of Trump's inner circle, and another in January 2017 in the Seychelles islands between the Emiratis and Prince. Nader was also in the Seychelles when Prince met with a Russian banker, the sources familiar with the matter told CNN.
A senior official in Saudi Arabia told the Times that the country has never employed Nader or given him authorization to speak on behalf of the crown prince.
A lawyer representing Joel Zamel pushed back on the report in a statement to CNN, saying that Zamel "offered nothing to the Trump campaign, received nothing from the Trump campaign, delivered nothing to the Trump campaign and was not solicited by, or asked to do anything for, the Trump campaign." The lawyer, Marc Mukasey, said that "media reports about Mr. Zamel's engaging in 'social media manipulation' are misguided. Mr. Zamel's companies harvest publicly available information for lawful use."
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/19/polit...ary/index.html

Once again, a conspiracy theory manufactured by the Resistance is spun up as "fact" by the hate filled Resistance.
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Old 05-21-2018, 07:29 PM
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Default Re: Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy)

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy)
Here, fixed the thread title for you,
Trump Campaign Accused of Collusion (Conspiracy)

See, last I looked, criminal guilt can only come after a trial that results in a conviction or by admission of guilt from the accused party in a court of law. We have neither of those in this situation.
Try to tone it down Shiva, this ain't India and you ain't the god of destruction.
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:32 AM
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Default Re: Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy)

And those emails (that forensic show and wikileaks confirms were stolen/leaked from the source) showed that who exactly conspired to rig an election?
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Old 06-12-2018, 08:28 AM
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Default Re: Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bat View Post
Here, fixed the thread title for you,
Trump Campaign Accused of Collusion (Conspiracy)

See, last I looked, criminal guilt can only come after a trial that results in a conviction or by admission of guilt from the accused party in a court of law. We have neither of those in this situation.
Try to tone it down Shiva, this ain't India and you ain't the god of destruction.
Being guilty of committing a crime and being convicted of committing a crime are not the same thing. A "Not Guilty" verdict from a jury is not a declaration of innocence under the laws of the United States. We can also note that criminal guilt (conviction) doesn't always reflect that the person is guilty of committing the crime either. There have been enough exonerations of wrongfully convicted persons to establish that as a fact.

The evidence of a conspiracy between members of the Trump campaign and the Russians is substantial but we have yet to see the criminal indictments and the successful prosecution where "admissible evidence" establishes "guilt beyond a reasonable doubt" but most of us are confident that the Mueller investigation has that evidence based upon what we know from outside of the Mueller investigation.

One of the greatest problems currently are people that keep claiming that Mueller's investigation hasn't produced any evidence of "collusion" (conspiracy) between the Trump campaign and the Russians. What the Mueller investigators have found in the way of evidence is a closely guarded secret. There have been no leaks from the investigation so any claims of what Mueller's team has uncovered are inherently wrong. We can make logical deductions based upon Mueller's court filings but those are logical deductions that establish that the evidence exists as opposed to actually being able to prove that the evidence exists.

Just following the Paul Manafort connections with Putin establishes the line of communication between the Trump campaign and Putin and the claims of one of Manafort's top executives (Konstantin Kilimnik), a former Russian intelligence officer that has always been in contact with (Putin's) Russian intelligence services and Putin oligarchs, that he was instrumental in Manafort's changing the Republican Party Platform on Russia provides enough evidence of a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Putin's Russia even if Trump was completely unaware of it (Trump unaware of it? Doubtful to say the least.).

The Mueller indictment alleging that Manafort conspired with Konstantin Kilimnik in witness tampering in 2018 and Kilimnik's claims he was responsible for the change in the Republican Party Platform on Russia provides grounds to logical conclude that Manafort and Kilimnik did conspire in 2016 for the benefit of Putin to make that change in the party platform. I don't know how any other logical conclusion can be made given what we know.
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Old 06-12-2018, 09:07 AM
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Default Re: Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy)

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And those emails (that forensic show and wikileaks confirms were stolen/leaked from the source) showed that who exactly conspired to rig an election?
We know how the accounts were hacked and the emails were stolen.
https://www.apnews.com/dea73efc01594839957c3c9a6c962b8a

Those emails were provided to Russian intelligence that almost immediately, through an intermediary, notified the Trump campaign of their existence (April 26, 2016 meeting with George Papadopoulos).

Russian intelligence, once again using intermediaries, notified the Trump campaign (Donald Trump Jr,) that they wanted to furnish those DNC/Clinton Campaign emails for use by the Trump campaign. The release of those emails was negotiated on June 9, 2016 between Manafort, Kushner, and Trump Jr. with Russian lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya and that Putin wanted the US sanctions lifted against Russia that had been imposed by the Obama Administration when Russia invaded the Crimea. Those sanctions had resulted in the Russian response of suspending an adoption program that Trump Sr. dictated in a memo (for Trump Jr.) the meeting was about to cover up the real purpose of the meeting.

We don't have public knowledge of what actual terms were negotiated between the Trump campaign and (Putin's) Russian intelligence at the Trump Tower meeting (or thereafter) but we do know that something agreeable to Putin was achieved because Russian intelligence began feeding those emails to WikiLeaks that began publishing them on July 22, 2016, less than two weeks after the Trump Tower meeting.

Putin didn't help the Trump campaign by furnishing the DNC/Clinton campaign emails to WikiLeaks out of the goodness in his heart. Vladimir Putin doesn't do anything out of the goodness of his heart because there is no goodness in Putin's heart. Putin knew the emails would be very valuable to the Trump campaign and he used that value to secure as much as possible from Donald Trump.

There's also some evidence supporting the intelligence that Michael Cohen, Trump's "Fixit man" with a financial slush fund, went to Prague to pay for the hacking of the emails. Cohen denied going to Prague showing that his passport wasn't stamped but its been reported that Cohen's trip was by train from Germany to Prague during the time period the intelligence provided and where a passport isn't stamped.
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:23 AM
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Default Re: Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Being guilty of committing a crime and being convicted of committing a crime are not the same thing. A "Not Guilty" verdict from a jury is not a declaration of innocence under the laws of the United States. We can also note that criminal guilt (conviction) doesn't always reflect that the person is guilty of committing the crime either. There have been enough exonerations of wrongfully convicted persons to establish that as a fact.

The evidence of a conspiracy between members of the Trump campaign and the Russians is substantial but we have yet to see the criminal indictments and the successful prosecution where "admissible evidence" establishes "guilt beyond a reasonable doubt" but most of us are confident that the Mueller investigation has that evidence based upon what we know from outside of the Mueller investigation.

One of the greatest problems currently are people that keep claiming that Mueller's investigation hasn't produced any evidence of "collusion" (conspiracy) between the Trump campaign and the Russians. What the Mueller investigators have found in the way of evidence is a closely guarded secret. There have been no leaks from the investigation so any claims of what Mueller's team has uncovered are inherently wrong. We can make logical deductions based upon Mueller's court filings but those are logical deductions that establish that the evidence exists as opposed to actually being able to prove that the evidence exists.

Just following the Paul Manafort connections with Putin establishes the line of communication between the Trump campaign and Putin and the claims of one of Manafort's top executives (Konstantin Kilimnik), a former Russian intelligence officer that has always been in contact with (Putin's) Russian intelligence services and Putin oligarchs, that he was instrumental in Manafort's changing the Republican Party Platform on Russia provides enough evidence of a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Putin's Russia even if Trump was completely unaware of it (Trump unaware of it? Doubtful to say the least.).

The Mueller indictment alleging that Manafort conspired with Konstantin Kilimnik in witness tampering in 2018 and Kilimnik's claims he was responsible for the change in the Republican Party Platform on Russia provides grounds to logical conclude that Manafort and Kilimnik did conspire in 2016 for the benefit of Putin to make that change in the party platform. I don't know how any other logical conclusion can be made given what we know.
"Being guilty of committing a crime and being convicted of committing a crime are not the same thing. " Oops, just blew Hillary's email server criminal conspiracy defenders out of the water. Then FBI director James Comey testified the investigation had shown plenty of criminal activity. It follows that using this standard Hillary is guilty of serious felony charges.

You are confident Mueller has the evidence to prove a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and Russia despite the fact his investigation hasn't produced evidence or any charges of the conspiracy. It's a classic claim of the zealot.

Since the beginning the Trump Russia conspiracy narrative has relied on so-called secret evidence, any holes will be filled in, trust us. Never mind that Mueller's investigation, a Senate and House committee, as well as a rabid media continuously howling for Trump's destruction have failed to produce evidence, ya gotta believe.
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:38 AM
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Default Re: Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy)

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The GRU (Russian intelligence) was responsible for the hacking of the DNC/Hillary Clinton emails.
Why is this said as fact when its just a talking point to make the Dems feel like victims?...

Assange has already publicly said this didn't happen plenty of times...

Rohrabacher: Assange Says Russia Not Behind DNC Email Leak

Julian Assange: Russian government not source of leaked DNC and Podesta emails - WikiLeaks editor contradicts CIA claims in new interview

And a former UK Ambassador to Uzbekistan has said the hacked emails weren't even hacked, but delivered from the inside...Even leftwing Snopes has this as "unproven" instead of "false"...

The Deep State wanted Hillary, and (obviously) Hillary would look like a total tool if the leaks came from within the Democrat Party, itself...so they need to make up an alternative narrative...

Russia! Russia! Russia!....
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Old 06-12-2018, 02:22 PM
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Default Re: Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy)

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Why is this said as fact when its just a talking point to make the Dems feel like victims?...

Assange has already publicly said this didn't happen plenty of times...

Rohrabacher: Assange Says Russia Not Behind DNC Email Leak

Julian Assange: Russian government not source of leaked DNC and Podesta emails - WikiLeaks editor contradicts CIA claims in new interview

And a former UK Ambassador to Uzbekistan has said the hacked emails weren't even hacked, but delivered from the inside...Even leftwing Snopes has this as "unproven" instead of "false"...

The Deep State wanted Hillary, and (obviously) Hillary would look like a total tool if the leaks came from within the Democrat Party, itself...so they need to make up an alternative narrative...

Russia! Russia! Russia!....
And don't forget the DNC and Podesta were not hacked either. In this case the moron (Podesta) and then owing to the same moron (Podesta) the DNC was phished.
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Old 06-12-2018, 03:50 PM
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Default Re: Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy)

Time for Mueller to move on to the REAL collusion between Trump and North Korea. I just heard they had a secret meeting yesterday. I can only guess it was about the 2016 election, and now they are trying to rig the 2020 election
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