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Open Discussion Discuss Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy) at the General Forum; Originally Posted by ShivaTD Phishing is an illegal means by which to acquire the information consumers use to identify themselves ...

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-14-2018, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy)

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Phishing is an illegal means by which to acquire the information consumers use to identify themselves online.

Hacking is the act of gaining access to information to which you are not authorized.


Phishing, in this case, was used as the means to obtain the access to information that they (those responsible for the phishing scam) were not authorized to (i.e. hacking).

So while the username and password were obtained by the "phishing" when the username and password was used to access the email account to secure the contents of the emails, then that constituted hacking of the email account.

So yes it involved phishing but it also involved hacking as well.

Please learn the definitions of the words that you use.
Well that is a nice bit of dithering in order to disagree, dance on the head of a pin much? Which word don't you think I know the definition to? Take that rhetorically unless you care to dispute a single fact I spoke of. Dither away.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2018, 09:43 AM
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Default Re: Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Phishing is an illegal means by which to acquire the information consumers use to identify themselves online.

Hacking is the act of gaining access to information to which you are not authorized.


Phishing, in this case, was used as the means to obtain the access to information that they (those responsible for the phishing scam) were not authorized to (i.e. hacking).

So while the username and password were obtained by the "phishing" when the username and password was used to access the email account to secure the contents of the emails, then that constituted hacking of the email account.

So yes it involved phishing but it also involved hacking as well.

Please learn the definitions of the words that you use.
Please learn to avoid creating pedantry, commenting as a pedant to avoid discussing the issue.

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Pedantic means "like a pedant," someone who's too concerned with literal accuracy or formality. It's a negative term that implies someone is showing off book learning or trivia, especially in a tiresome way.
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Old 06-16-2018, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy)

I find it rather interesting that the first article, alone (to which you linked), relies upon such weasel words as "according to several people," "[i]t is unclear," and "was said to"...
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Old 06-16-2018, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy)

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Being guilty of committing a crime and being convicted of committing a crime are not the same thing. A "Not Guilty" verdict from a jury is not a declaration of innocence under the laws of the United States. We can also note that criminal guilt (conviction) doesn't always reflect that the person is guilty of committing the crime either. There have been enough exonerations of wrongfully convicted persons to establish that as a fact.
So, what standard are you offering, exactly?

Is it the 51-percent standard of a civil trial?

Or what, exactly?
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Old 06-16-2018, 04:37 PM
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Default Re: Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy)

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Putin didn't help the Trump campaign by furnishing the DNC/Clinton campaign emails to WikiLeaks out of the goodness in his heart. Vladimir Putin doesn't do anything out of the goodness of his heart because there is no goodness in Putin's heart.
Agreed.

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Putin knew the emails would be very valuable to the Trump campaign and he used that value to secure as much as possible from Donald Trump.
There is a logical fallacy known as The Argument from Motives.

You might just want to brush up on it...
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Old 06-17-2018, 08:50 AM
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Default Re: Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy)

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Correct...

According to Podesta, he asked an IT employee if the email was safe and was given the OK...
Podesta didn't ask an employee of the DNC if the phishing email was OK. He asked an employee of the consulting firm Crowdstrike retained to manage DNC servers including security. The consultant later claimed he made a typing error in his email response to Podesta, he meant to respond with "illegitimate" but the email read "legitimate."

A consultant making an almost comical typing mistake would be humorous if the ramifications were not so profound. Moreover this same clown car of consultants was allowed to selectively filter the server information given to the FBI. The information was used to "conclude" the Russians had hacked the DNC servers which in turn became the Democrat rallying cry to not reward the Russians by publicizing Democrat corruption.

Although it has been treated as evidence by the media and Democrats, the server information provided second hand by consultants is nothing more than inadmissible hearsay. Obama's politicized intelligence agencies didn't bother to insist on direct examination of the servers to collect forensic evidence just took what the Democrats paid consultants gave them. The media then touted the Russians did it as established fact.

Hmm... An incurious media adopts Democrat spin as part of its campaign to destroy Trump. Despite a lack of proof the story is repeated until it is no longer questioned nor are the actions of Federal law enforcement or intelligence agencies based on the tale subjected to scrutiny. This pattern of validation by repetition, not evidence, has been used to promote not just the Russians hacked the servers narrative but the opposition research dossier as well.
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Old 06-17-2018, 09:29 AM
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Default Re: Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy)

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Russian meddling in our elections has been going on since 2014 and continues today unopposed by the Trump administration. The conspiracy (collusion) between members of the Trump campaign and Russian agents only addresses a limited time frame during 2016 or perhaps started in late 2015 when Michael Cohen was attempting to put together the Moscow Trump Tower deal (That Donald Trump lied about saying he wasn't trying to do any business deals with Russia). That's what Mueller's investigation was initially tasked with finding evidence of that conspiracy that was "probable" based upon intelligence and evidence available at the time.

The obstruction of justice that's under investigation didn't actually start until after Trump was elected although we know that the cover-ups of Trump campaign involvement with the Russians existed from at least late July 2016 when the FBI notified the Trump campaign of Russia targeting their campaign and requested that any contacts by Russians with the campaign be reported. The Trump campaign never reported their contacts with the Russians and, and we know some falsely denied any contacts had occurred because two of them have already plead guilty to lying to the FBI about their Russian contacts. We're still waiting to see of others are indicted for similar charges such as Jared Kushner that nefariously left out several contacts with the Russians on his Security Clearance form that he signed under penalty of perjury and that was then sent to the FBI for investigation.

So yes, the Russians are still meddling, and have increased their meddling, in the 2018 election and maybe Trump is still colluding with the Russians that can be indicated by Trump's refusal to do anything about it and just maybe Mueller has evidence of that too but Mueller hasn't mentioned it in any court papers.

Remember that no indictments have been issued yet related to the hacking of the DNC/Clinton campaign emails (that we know of) and those indictments will be coming out in the future because laws were broken. If there was a conspiracy related to those emails, and evidence indicates there was because of the efforts by the Trump campaign to obtain access to those emails, then those indictments will be coming as well.
I stopped reading after, "Russian meddling in our elections has been going on since 2014".
You are obviously a fool if you think 2014 was the beginning. Do you also think the world is only 6000 years old?
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Old 06-17-2018, 09:00 PM
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Default Re: Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy)

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
I find it rather interesting that the first article, alone (to which you linked), relies upon such weasel words as "according to several people," "[i]t is unclear," and "was said to"...
would you rather a confident trump lie?
why is it all of a sudden people never heard of reporters not revealing sources?
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Old 06-17-2018, 09:31 PM
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Default Re: Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy)

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I stopped reading after, "Russian meddling in our elections has been going on since 2014".
You are obviously a fool if you think 2014 was the beginning. Do you also think the world is only 6000 years old?
they may have previously tried, but we are sure they meddled in that one and hacked into the last presidential election. we don't know that they changed results. we do not know the did not change results.
don't be casual about this. it means your freedom.
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Old 06-18-2018, 10:47 PM
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Default Re: Trump Campaign Guilty of Collusion (Conspiracy)

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they may have previously tried, but we are sure they meddled in that one and hacked into the last presidential election. we don't know that they changed results. we do not know the did not change results.
don't be casual about this. it means your freedom.
Actually, there is no proof that they "hacked" into anything. So far, there are only accusations that they "hacked' into the DNC but the DNC refused to allow the FBI or CIA to do any forensic analysis on their computer systems.
We do know that John Podesta had his email phished (that isn't hacking) by some entity but it has never been proven to be Russians.

Meddling, collusion, conspiracy and hacking are all very different activities but you seem to think that they all mean the same thing. It's scary to me that people (like you) don't understand that and yet you still vote.
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