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Old 12-25-2017, 06:20 PM
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Default Tech pioneers tell FCC: 'You don't understand how the internet works'

Tech pioneers tell FCC: 'You don't understand how the internet works'

Quote:
Today, pioneers of the internet such as Steve Wozniak, Tim Berners-Lee and Vinton Cerf sent a letter to the FCC telling them, "You don't understand how the internet works." The letter calls on the FCC to cancel the December 14th vote, which would repeal net neutrality.
here's the letter:

Senator Wicker:
Senator Schatz:
Representative Blackburn:
Representative Doyle:


We are the pioneers and technologists who created and now operate the Internet, and some of the innovators and business people who, like many others, depend on it for our livelihood. We are writing to respectfully urge you to call on FCC Chairman Ajit Pai to cancel the December 14 vote on the FCC’s proposed Restoring Internet Freedom Order (WC Docket No. 17-108 ).

This proposed Order would repeal key network neutrality protections that prevent Internet access providers from blocking content, websites and applications, slowing or speeding up services or classes of service, and charging online services for access or fast lanes to Internet access providers’ customers. The proposed Order would also repeal oversight over other unreasonable discrimination and unreasonable practices, and over interconnection with last-mile Internet access providers. The proposed Order removes long-standing FCC oversight over Internet access providers without an adequate replacement to protect consumers, free markets and online innovation.

It is important to understand that the FCC’s proposed Order is based on a flawed and factually inaccurate understanding of Internet technology. These flaws and inaccuracies were documented in detail in a 43-page-long joint comment signed by over 200 of the most prominent Internet pioneers and engineers and submitted to the FCC on July 17, 2017.

Despite this comment, the FCC did not correct its misunderstandings, but instead premised the proposed Order on the very technical flaws the comment explained. The technically-incorrect proposed Order dismantles 15 years of targeted oversight from both Republican and Democratic FCC chairs, who understood the threats that Internet access providers could pose to open markets on the Internet.

The experts’ comment was not the only one the FCC ignored. Over 23 million comments have been submitted by a public that is clearly passionate about protecting the Internet. The FCC could not possibly have considered these adequately.

Indeed, breaking with established practice, the FCC has not held a single open public meeting to hear from citizens and experts about the proposed Order.

Furthermore, the FCC’s online comment system has been plagued by major problems that the FCC has not had time to investigate. These include bot-generated comments that impersonated Americans, including dead people, and an unexplained outage of the FCC’s on-line comment system that occurred at the very moment TV host John Oliver was encouraging Americans to submit comments to the system.

Compounding our concern, the FCC has failed to respond to Freedom of Information Act requests about these incidents and failed to provide information to a New York State Attorney General’s investigation of them.

We therefore call on you to urge FCC Chairman Pai to cancel the FCC’s vote. The FCC’s rushed and technically incorrect proposed Order to abolish net neutrality protections without any replacement is an imminent threat to the Internet we worked so hard to create. It should be stopped.


Signed,

Frederick J. Baker, IETF Chair 1996-2001, ISOC Board Chair 2002-2006

Mitchell Baker, Executive Chairwoman, Mozilla Foundation

Steven M. Bellovin, Internet pioneer, FTC Chief Technologist, 2012-2013

Tim Berners-Lee, inventor of the World Wide Web & professor, MIT

John Borthwick, CEO, Betaworks

Scott O. Bradner, Internet pioneer

Vinton G. Cerf, Internet pioneer

Stephen D. Crocker, Internet pioneer

Whitfield Diffie, inventor of public-key cryptography

David J. Farber, Internet pioneer, FCC Chief Technologist 1999-2000

Dewayne Hendricks, CEO Tetherless Access

Martin E. Hellman, Internet security pioneer

Brewster Kahle, Internet pioneer, founder, Internet Archive

Susan Landau, cybersecurity expert & professor, Tufts University

Theodor Holm Nelson, hypertext pioneer

David P. Reed, Internet pioneer

Jennifer Rexford, Chair of Computer Science, Princeton University

Ronald L. Rivest, co-inventor of RSA public-key encryption algorithm

Paul Vixie, Internet pioneer

Stephen Wolff, Internet pioneer

Steve Wozniak, co-founder, Apple Computer


Cc:

Members of the Senate Commerce Subcommittee on Communications, Technology, Innovation, and the Internet

Members of the House Energy Subcommittee on Communications and Technology

Federal Communications Commissioners
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Old 12-26-2017, 10:09 AM
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Default Re: Tech pioneers tell FCC: 'You don't understand how the internet works'

Dear Internet Pioneers,
Thank you for your brilliant achievement creating the Internet. No doubt you understand the technology you invented. But sadly you fail to understand neither the corrosive effects of bureaucratic meddling on innovation nor the self regulation of a free market. Kindly look at the revolutionary advances of the telecommunications sector after the smothering hand of government meddling was removed. Instead of the Byzantine web of long distance charges for various area codes unlimited talk and text are ubiquitous. Heavy handed government regulation in the name of protecting the public held back profound improvements in telecommunications service and value, keeping the so-called net neutrality regulations established by royal decree will only do the same.
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Old 12-26-2017, 10:48 AM
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Default Re: Tech pioneers tell FCC: 'You don't understand how the internet works'

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Tech pioneers tell FCC: 'You don't understand how the internet works'



here's the letter:

Senator Wicker:
Senator Schatz:
Representative Blackburn:
Representative Doyle:

Edit....

Federal Communications Commissioners
One of the aspects of neutralizing 'net neutrality' that a lot of people fail to realize, is that companies such as Netflix are using communications lines built by cable companies, and under 'net neutrality' are not required to pay the prorata costs of building and maintaining the very means of transmitting their services.

So 'cable' companies lay out millions if not billions for the hardlines and towers, and other companies use their equipment to undermine those cable companies services (profits). Not so 'neutral' for those who actually pay to provide the equipment.....
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Old 12-26-2017, 11:10 AM
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Default Re: Tech pioneers tell FCC: 'You don't understand how the internet works'

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
One of the aspects of neutralizing 'net neutrality' that a lot of people fail to realize, is that companies such as Netflix are using communications lines built by cable companies, and under 'net neutrality' are not required to pay the prorata costs of building and maintaining the very means of transmitting their services.

So 'cable' companies lay out millions if not billions for the hardlines and towers, and other companies use their equipment to undermine those cable companies services (profits). Not so 'neutral' for those who actually pay to provide the equipment.....
Netflix just like everybody else connected to the internet pays their ISP for service.Netflix isn't connected to the internet for free.They didn't pay Cletus or Bubba 20 bucks to go climb to the telephone pole and jerry rig a connection to the internet to get free internet. This idea that Netflix is getting free service is a load of hogwash either invented by morons who have no idea how the internet works or by lying sacks of ****s whose lips are firmly wrapped around the cocks of big business. Most internet companies have slow speed,somewhat slow speed, ok speed , fast speed and really fast speed. The amount you pay your ISP depends on how fast of a connection speed you want,.If you pay for slow speed then you are going to get slow speed now matter what website you connect to and if you pay for super fast speed then you will get super fast speed no matter what website you connect to.Now depending on how much that website's hosting company is paying their ISP that speed might be slower on their end, but it will never exceed the speed that you are paying your ISP for.

What you are advocating for with the repeal of net neutrality is not only do I pay for hypothetically 60 mbps download speed I also pay additional money for using that same speed that I am already paying for on certain websites.
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Old 12-26-2017, 11:59 AM
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Default Re: Tech pioneers tell FCC: 'You don't understand how the internet works'

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Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
Netflix just like everybody else connected to the internet pays their ISP for service.Netflix isn't connected to the internet for free.They didn't pay Cletus or Bubba 20 bucks to go climb to the telephone pole and jerry rig a connection to the internet to get free internet. This idea that Netflix is getting free service is a load of hogwash either invented by morons who have no idea how the internet works or by lying sacks of ****s whose lips are firmly wrapped around the cocks of big business. Most internet companies have slow speed,somewhat slow speed, ok speed , fast speed and really fast speed. The amount you pay your ISP depends on how fast of a connection speed you want,.If you pay for slow speed then you are going to get slow speed now matter what website you connect to and if you pay for super fast speed then you will get super fast speed no matter what website you connect to.Now depending on how much that website's hosting company is paying their ISP that speed might be slower on their end, but it will never exceed the speed that you are paying your ISP for.

What you are advocating for with the repeal of net neutrality is not only do I pay for hypothetically 60 mbps download speed I also pay additional money for using that same speed that I am already paying for on certain websites.
No, so-called net neutrality that you have to pay that you have to pay whatever bureaucrats decree no matter how much data you put up or down the pipeline. There is nothing wrong with charging more for an internet service optimized for Netflix or any other content provider.

Net neutrality is bureaucrats searching for a problem to regulate. Since the problem net neutrality is supposed to fix is imaginary, the so-called crisis has to be made up.
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Old 12-26-2017, 12:17 PM
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Default Re: Tech pioneers tell FCC: 'You don't understand how the internet works'

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Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
Netflix just like everybody else connected to the internet pays their ISP for service.Netflix isn't connected to the internet for free.They didn't pay Cletus or Bubba 20 bucks to go climb to the telephone pole and jerry rig a connection to the internet to get free internet. This idea that Netflix is getting free service is a load of hogwash either invented by morons who have no idea how the internet works or by lying sacks of ****s whose lips are firmly wrapped around the cocks of big business. Most internet companies have slow speed,somewhat slow speed, ok speed , fast speed and really fast speed. The amount you pay your ISP depends on how fast of a connection speed you want,.If you pay for slow speed then you are going to get slow speed now matter what website you connect to and if you pay for super fast speed then you will get super fast speed no matter what website you connect to.Now depending on how much that website's hosting company is paying their ISP that speed might be slower on their end, but it will never exceed the speed that you are paying your ISP for.

What you are advocating for with the repeal of net neutrality is not only do I pay for hypothetically 60 mbps download speed I also pay additional money for using that same speed that I am already paying for on certain websites.
When a service provides more than a website, and allows the customer to download 'streaming' services, they need to be paying for the volume and speed they use on someone else's equipment. Under net neutrality, they aren't. It's not a matter of what speed a customer pays for, it's the access the service (I used Netflix as an example) pays the company that owns the equipment it's transmitted over.
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Old 12-26-2017, 03:24 PM
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Default Re: Tech pioneers tell FCC: 'You don't understand how the internet works'

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No, so-called net neutrality that you have to pay that you have to pay whatever bureaucrats decree no matter how much data you put up or down the pipeline.
Absolutely untrue. Net Neutrality didn't lift data caps nor did give bureaucrats authority to set prices. All it did was keep the internet as it was, as free and as innovative as it was, a pushback against data throttling and extortion from ISPs to web services.
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Old 12-26-2017, 04:27 PM
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Post Re: Tech pioneers tell FCC: 'You don't understand how the internet works'

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
One of the aspects of neutralizing 'net neutrality' that a lot of people fail to realize, is that companies such as Netflix are using communications lines built by cable companies, and under 'net neutrality' are not required to pay the prorata costs of building and maintaining the very means of transmitting their services.

So 'cable' companies lay out millions if not billions for the hardlines and towers, and other companies use their equipment to undermine those cable companies services (profits). Not so 'neutral' for those who actually pay to provide the equipment.....
That's true of virtually every web-site out there.

And let's not b.s. the situation. This is not about getting Netflix or other companies to pay for the building and maintenance.

CONSUMERS ALREADY DO THIS when they pay Comcast et al.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo
When a service provides more than a website, and allows the customer to download 'streaming' services, they need to be paying for the volume and speed they use on someone else's equipment. Under net neutrality, they aren't.
Before Net Neutrality, nobody was trying to get that enforced.
Consumers already pay for this. And the cost has been rising outrageously over the years. Far outstripping normal inflation.

You present absolutely no data to show any effect from this supposed "missing" maintenance money.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WallyWager View Post
Absolutely untrue. Net Neutrality didn't lift data caps nor did give bureaucrats authority to set prices. All it did was keep the internet as it was, as free and as innovative as it was, a pushback against data throttling and extortion from ISPs to web services.
There are so many lies thrown out there by people fighting against Net Neutrality it isn't even funny...
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Old 12-26-2017, 05:05 PM
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Default Re: Tech pioneers tell FCC: 'You don't understand how the internet works'

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
That's true of virtually every web-site out there.

And let's not b.s. the situation. This is not about getting Netflix or other companies to pay for the building and maintenance.

CONSUMERS ALREADY DO THIS when they pay Comcast et al.

Before Net Neutrality, nobody was trying to get that enforced.
Consumers already pay for this. And the cost has been rising outrageously over the years. Far outstripping normal inflation.

You present absolutely no data to show any effect from this supposed "missing" maintenance money.

There are so many lies thrown out there by people fighting against Net Neutrality it isn't even funny...
I'll get the solid stats, but yes, net neutrality prevents the companies that built the equipment from charging the services such NetFlix for the extra 'bandwidth' they use for the high speed transmission required for such downloads. My spouse has worked in this industry for over 30 years...

How do you think companies like NetFlix can charge $10 per movie? Because they are not paying for what they use -
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Old 12-26-2017, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: Tech pioneers tell FCC: 'You don't understand how the internet works'

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I'll get the solid stats, but yes, net neutrality prevents the companies that built the equipment from charging the services such NetFlix for the extra 'bandwidth' they use for the high speed transmission required for such downloads. My spouse has worked in this industry for over 30 years...

How do you think companies like NetFlix can charge $10 per movie? Because they are not paying for what they use -
Lets imagine you move into a new apartment building. Big one 150 apartments. They tell you that they are all already wired for internet and the price is 20 dollars a month and you get gigabit service. Which is GREAT because no other network service is available there.

So one day company XYZ comes to your landlord and says. Hey if you tell us all the websites your tenants are going to so we can mail them targeted ads we'll give you a dollar per tenant you report on. So the landlord thinks this is a good idea and he logs into his routers and puts the report together for company XYZ and sends it to them. As he's looking through his logs he finds that 70 percent of the traffic on the apartment building network is Netflix. So he sends netflix a letter demanding for each person on the buildings network that access Netflix they pay him 1 dollar a month or he will slow down all traffic from Netflix. Because Netflix is unfairly using his network and not paying for it. Of course he doesn't tell his tenants/customers he's doing this.

Netflix of course doesn't pay him, and so he slows down all traffic from Netflix and the customer gets screwed.

But now lets say those people in that apartment building represent 1/3 of Netflix customers? Well of course it's only right that Netflix should have to pay right? I mean they are UNFAIRLY using his network. Forget the fact that the customers are already paying 20 a month for network access and he could easily raise the price to 21 dollars a month if he WANTED to well except for the contractual agreements he has in place with them. But you know for new customers he could.

Remember you live there? How do you feel about all this?
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