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Open Discussion Discuss Tech pioneers tell FCC: 'You don't understand how the internet works' at the General Forum; Originally Posted by GottaGo Let me make this simple for you. The more companies like NetFlix (not JUST NetFlix) expand ...

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Old 01-05-2018, 09:37 AM
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Default Re: Tech pioneers tell FCC: 'You don't understand how the internet works'

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Let me make this simple for you. The more companies like NetFlix (not JUST NetFlix) expand their customer base for high speed streaming, the faster equipment needs to be upgraded (software maintenance), built and/or replaced (physical equipment). That expansion has DOUBLED (data previously provided) in the last 4 years. But under NN, the cable/fiber companies are not allowed to charge the SOURCE for those upgrades and maintenance. The customer base cannot support the possible increases in prices and the base has actually dropped and some which have contracts with their providers that have them locked in at X price, so the cable/fiber companies bear the brunt of the costs.

I am through discussing this with you. If you don't understand it, won't read the information I have provided, then you won't drink the water no matter how many times I lead you to it.

Your problem, not mine.
The thing you don't seem to get is "the SOURCE for those upgrades and maintenance" are THEIR CUSTOMERS, NOT the services themselves. Netflix and other's are not FORCING their customers to use their services.

They say. Hey look pay us 55 dollars a month and you can get 100Mb/sec down and 1 up with a data cap of 100GB or pay us 80 dollars a month and you can get 150Mb/sec down and 3 Mb/s up with a data cap of 200G or pay us 175 dollars a month and you can get 1Gb/sec down and 50 Mb/s up with a data cap of 1500Gb. If you want to internet you have no choice but to buy from us, and these are the plans we offer. And customers go... Yuck (If you are lucky enough to live in a GOOGLE fiber area you can get 1Gb/sec and 1Gb/sec up for 70 dollars with no data cap and they're FOR NET NEUTRALITY!!!)

So customers choose a plan based on what they think they will use. They are PAYING DIFFERENT levels for DIFFERENT bandwidth and DIFFERENT amounts of data. You starting to see why what you are saying here is just stupid?

If I hire you to go get groceries for me and I pay you for going a up to certain number of miles and carrying up to a certain number of groceries and you notice that after a new grocery store moved in I started getting more groceries from them and using your service more but not exceeding the limits we agreed on, you would seriously contend that since I buy more stuff from The QUICKY MART they should be paying you too?

Because you know you have car maintenance and gas you have to pay for.

Give me a break.
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Old 01-05-2018, 10:31 AM
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Default Re: Tech pioneers tell FCC: 'You don't understand how the internet works'

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Originally Posted by Zenock View Post
The thing you don't seem to get is "the SOURCE for those upgrades and maintenance" are THEIR CUSTOMERS, NOT the services themselves. Netflix and other's are not FORCING their customers to use their services.

They say. Hey look pay us 55 dollars a month and you can get 100Mb/sec down and 1 up with a data cap of 100GB or pay us 80 dollars a month and you can get 150Mb/sec down and 3 Mb/s up with a data cap of 200G or pay us 175 dollars a month and you can get 1Gb/sec down and 50 Mb/s up with a data cap of 1500Gb. If you want to internet you have no choice but to buy from us, and these are the plans we offer. And customers go... Yuck (If you are lucky enough to live in a GOOGLE fiber area you can get 1Gb/sec and 1Gb/sec up for 70 dollars with no data cap and they're FOR NET NEUTRALITY!!!)

So customers choose a plan based on what they think they will use. They are PAYING DIFFERENT levels for DIFFERENT bandwidth and DIFFERENT amounts of data. You starting to see why what you are saying here is just stupid?

If I hire you to go get groceries for me and I pay you for going a up to certain number of miles and carrying up to a certain number of groceries and you notice that after a new grocery store moved in I started getting more groceries from them and using your service more but not exceeding the limits we agreed on, you would seriously contend that since I buy more stuff from The QUICKY MART they should be paying you too?

Because you know you have car maintenance and gas you have to pay for.

Give me a break.
Cable/fiber companies do not have a lock on the industry, hence the drop in subscribers (previous link provided).

The source of transmission has a responsibility to pay for THEIR access to the equipment owned by others, regardless of who receives their transmission.

The increase in 'streaming' (high bandwidth usage) has doubled in 4 years - more build and upgrades that cannot be charged to the source, and the consumer increases in price do not cover those costs.
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Old 01-05-2018, 10:42 AM
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Post Re: Tech pioneers tell FCC: 'You don't understand how the internet works'

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Let me make this simple for you.
You seriously need to start comprehending where the source of dispute ACTUALLY is because you keep repeating crap that is not in contention. THESE types of claims you'll provide evidence nobody needs.

The stuff that is in contention? You ignore what I am saying and blindly repeat yourself providing no evidence for those actual claims.

We are looking at a lot of the same information, but arriving at different conclusions.

And where you are being challenged to document your claims, you blithely ignore the fact that your claim is in contention and refuse to prove it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
The more companies like NetFlix (not JUST NetFlix) expand their customer base for high speed streaming, the faster equipment needs to be upgraded (software maintenance), built and/or replaced (physical equipment). That expansion has DOUBLED (data previously provided) in the last 4 years. But under NN, the cable/fiber companies are not allowed to charge the SOURCE for those upgrades and maintenance.
The above is essentially not in dispute.

The next part is where you step into B.S territory. And I have explicitly laid out what aspects of your claims are problematic in the past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
The customer base cannot support the possible increases in prices and the base has actually dropped and some which have contracts with their providers that have them locked in at X price, so the cable/fiber companies bear the brunt of the costs.
First off, can you show evidence to document your claim that the "customer base cannot support the ... increases in prices"?

Secondly, this claim of "providers that have them locked in at X price" is another of your b.s. claims.
There are sweetheart "You just joined Comcast as a new customer? Let me lock in a price for you for several months" But that's about it.
I have repeatedly documented for you that Comcast is notorious for jacking up prices.

Third, this claim of "base has actually dropped" is an incomplete analysis.
TV subscribers have dropped.
Cable internet subscribers continue to rise.
Worse for you, internet usage has risen at a pace higher than the TV usage has dropped. From the graph you can see the internet usage RISE with 8+. The drop from video was less than 3.
NET INCREASE.

And this provides and INCREASED customer base for the customers actually affected by ISP usage. Despite the increases in price I previously documented, internet usage is still rising.
Your assessment is wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
I am through discussing this with you.
Honestly, I would love to know when you were actually engaged on the issue.
Cause from the start, I was pressing you to document your claim that charging the streaming services was needed.
You refused to do it.
I repeatedly and explicitly showed that was my exact challenge.
You refused. Cause you can't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
If you don't understand it, won't read the information I have provided, then you won't drink the water no matter how many times I lead you to it.
This is more dishonesty from you.
I have been explicitly clear about where I believe you are exaggerating or downright making up crap.
The need to maintain has never been in question.
Your claim that charging the streaming sites was needed was what I was repeatedly challenging you to prove.

And after all this time if you honestly could not get that, then it's better that you bow out of a conversation you can't keep up with.
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:51 AM
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Default Re: Tech pioneers tell FCC: 'You don't understand how the internet works'

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Cable/fiber companies do not have a lock on the industry, hence the drop in subscribers (previous link provided).
I have gone back through all your posts and do not see one that indicates Cable/Fiber companies do not have a lock on the industry. Would you please be so kind as to re-post it? Because that certainly does not match the reality of my experience.

Quote:
The source of transmission has a responsibility to pay for THEIR access to the equipment owned by others, regardless of who receives their transmission.
And they do. The same way I pay for MY internet service to transmit this post to Political Wrinkles and CNREDD pays the company hosting the information so it can be transmitted back out to YOU. If the number of people visiting Political Wrinkles were to increase 1000 fold then I guarantee that the company CNREDD is hosting with would charge him MORE for the increased traffic. But YOU seem to think he should have to pay the ISPs of the additional people visiting the site as well (Especially if they are all on the same ISP) because "He's putting traffic on their networks". That's where we're having a break down in seeing eye to eye on the issue. It's just ridiculous. They are ALREADY getting paid by their customers so that THEIR customers can get to Political Wrinkles and other sites. If THEY aren't charging THEIR CUSTOMERS enough to cover the costs. That's THEIR fault. Not CNREDD'S.

Quote:
The increase in 'streaming' (high bandwidth usage) has doubled in 4 years - more build and upgrades that cannot be charged to the source, and the consumer increases in price do not cover those costs.
The only thing different about 'streaming' than any other internet traffic is the amount of information coming in a single 'file'. Honestly a 'stream' is easier to pass along than multiple smaller files of the same amount of data. Because the costly overhead of establishing a connection only happens once.

If I pay my ISP to receive up to 200 GB of data at 100Mb/s and I use that connection to receive 150GB of data during the month. I will have caused them a LOT LESS congestion if that data all arrived in "streams". So yeah that's kinda bogus. If they can't afford to provide me with 150GB of data at 100Mb/s for ONLY $55 a month, they SHOULDN'T be offering it to me at that price.
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Old 01-18-2018, 11:40 AM
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Post Re: Tech pioneers tell FCC: 'You don't understand how the internet works'

Anybody who claims that Net Neutrality is about paying for internet upgrades is really putting on the blinders to the facts...
Not to mention the history...

Quote:
$400 Billion Broadband Scandal

By the end of 2014, America will have been charged about $400 billion by the local phone incumbents, Verizon, AT&T and CenturyLink, for a fiber optic future that never showed up. And though it varies by state, counting the taxes, fees and surcharges that you have paid every month (many of these fees are actually revenues to the company or taxes on the company that you paid), it comes to about $4000-$5000.00 per household from 1992-2014, and that’s the low number.

You were also charged about nine times to wire the schools and libraries via state and federal plans designed to help the phone and cable companies.

And if that doesn’t bother you, by year-end of 2010, and based on the commitments made by the phone companies in their press statements, filings on the state and federal level, and the state-based ‘alternative regulation’ plans that were put in place to charge you for broadband upgrades of the telephone company wire in your home, business, as well as the schools and libraries — America, should have been the world’s first fully fibered, leading edge broadband nation.

In fact, in 1992, the speed of broadband, as detailed in state laws, was 45 Mbps in both directions — by 2014, all of us should have been enjoying gigabit speeds (1000 Mbps).

Instead, America is not number 1 or 2 or 5 or even 10th in the world in broadband. As of Monday, September 15th, 2014, one of the standard testing companies of the speed of broadband, worldwide, Net Index by Ookla, pegged America at 25th in the world in download speeds and 40th in upload speeds. Though this accounting varies daily, America’s download speeds are never in the top 20 countries.
The Book Of Broken Promises: $400 Billion Broadband Scandal And Free The Net – Blooms Mag

More details at the link.
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