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Open Discussion Discuss Trump and the Law at the General Forum; Of what drastic measures are you speaking? President rump has the constitutional legal power to shut this down anytime he ...

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2017, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: Trump and the Law

Of what drastic measures are you speaking?

President rump has the constitutional legal power to shut this down anytime he wants. He has not done so. Instead letting the left and the media ( like they are not one in the same anymore) stew in their own spin while going about the process of keeping his campaign promises.

As far as I care, Mueller can keep on digging. Doesn't seem to have been able to catch more than two or three people for actions having nothing to do with the so called Trump collusion for which his SP powers were commissioned.

I betting the reason for that is there is nothing there. A growing public consensus agrees. Or no longer even cares. So, the longer this goes on the less credibility will be attached to the entire fiasco.

And, as well, to those who frantically continue to demand it be done
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Old 12-31-2017, 10:58 PM
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Default Re: Trump and the Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The Mueller investigation is funded by the budget authorizations for the FBI that fund all FBI criminal investigations. It does not have special Congressional funding. Congress can cut the FBI budget but it cannot specifically cut the funding for Mueller's investigation because there's no special funding authority to be addressed.

Michael Flynn and George Papadopoulos are not "Trump haters" but both plead guilty to the FBI to cover up their contacts with Russian operatives in an apparent attempt to shield Donald Trump from being connected to the Russians.

Michael Flynn's confession is of special importance because we know Flynn was discussing the lifting of sanctions against Russia once Trump took office. Flynn couldn't lift the sanctions, only Trump could, and Flynn would not have been discussing the lifting of the sanction without Trump's approval because only Trump could lift those sanctions. Logic would indicate that Flynn can implicate Trump by establishing a quid pro quo arrangement between Donald Trump and Russia (Putin) where Russia would engage in covert operations, that included the felonious hacking of Democratic emails, to help Trump get elected and in turn Trump would lift the sanctions against Russia. That exceeds the non-criminal act of collusion and introduces the a criminal charge of conspiracy to commit a crime (hacking of the Democratic emails by Russia) by Donald Trump.

This would be on top of the current evidence of obstruction of justice against Donald Trump where the White House Council advised Trump that Flynn was under a criminal investigation and then Trump attempted to get Comey to drop that criminal investigation. The White House Council's notes document his advising Trump of the criminal acts Flynn was under investigation for and Comey's testimony supported by his notes taken at the time and his discussing what Trump had said to him at the time with other top FBI members provides compelling evidence of obstruction of justice. Donald Trump, a documented compulsive liar, only has his own potential testimony to use as a defense against the evidence him.

Mueller didn't let Flynn off lightly by only charging him with perjury in lying to the FBI without Flynn providing compelling evidence that would reach higher in the White House and the only person of importance higher than Flynn in the Trump White House is Donald Trump. To believe that Flynn hasn't implicated Trump in a deal with Russia to drop sanctions requires living in a bubble that blocks out all reality.

Typically a prosecutor, including Robert Mueller, will not bring charges against a person until an investigation is complete to the point that indictments can be obtained for all criminal charges that will be brought against the person. As noted Mueller apparently has enough evidence for the obstruction of justice complaint and possibly has enough evidence for a conspiracy charge against Trump but may still be searching for additional evidence or testimony to back up Flynn's potential testimony. While Flynn would certainly be very significant witness in prosecuting Trump for conspiracy the prosecution would certainly want more than a single witness.

In addition to seeking to find more evidence related to a possible conspiracy charge the Mueller investigation may also be investigating other possible crimes by Donald Trusmp. There's been circumstantial evidence of the Trump Organizations involvement with Russian organized crime including possible money laundering. The fact that members of Russian organized crime were purchasing Trump property to launder money the received by their illegal activities in Russia has already been documented but a connection to Donald Trump being involved hasn't been publically revealed. At a time when Trump was in severe financial difficulties, unable to secure funding through conventional banking institutions, there's potential evidence of Russian organized crime providing the funding for the Trump Soho development that was channeled through a third party lender.

Robert Mueller has organized the Dream Team of prosecutors that have the expertise and proven background in providing the evidence for conviction in all criminal activities under his investigation.

Republicans in Congress have complained that most of Mueller's prosecutors have liberal political connections but their political opinions have absolutely nothing to do with their success in prosecuting criminal activities at the highest level. "Liberals" are often referred to as "Trump Haters" but when it comes to investigating and prosecuting criminal offenses only the evidence matters.

Mueller couldn't have cared less about their political opinion when he selected them. Mueller only cared about their track record as prosecutors and he selected the best people available. Mueller's not involved in a political investigation where the political opinions of the prosecutors could be relevant. Mueller's involved in a criminal investigation where only the competence of the prosecutors in obtaining evidence and prosecuting a criminal case in courtroom is important.

Only the evidence matters and as of right now the evidence of criminal offenses committed by Donald Trump continues to build. There's apparently enough already for some criminal charges and there's strong indications of evidence being collected for more serious crimes committed by Donald Trump.

Time to get out of the bubble and face reality Trump supporters. Trump really is going to be criminally connected with the Russians and face criminal indictments. You can bet the farm on that happening.
Another lengthy rant filled with partisan inaccuracies and untruths.

Mueller's grand inquisition is funded by a special Treasury account.

Quote:
Former FBI Director Robert S. Mueller started as special counsel to oversee the bureau’s investigation of alleged Russian efforts to impact the 2016 presidential election, but the cost of his work won’t be part of the regular appropriations process.

The funds for Mueller and his team come from a Treasury Department account for permanent, indefinite appropriations, said Lee Lofthus, the assistant attorney general for administration and a budget expert at the Justice Department.
https://www.rollcall.com/news/politi...e-funding-path

FYI Congress has the power to determine what will be funded or not.

Trump told Comey he hoped he could let Flynn's misstatements go. Later on he agreed with Comey about the need for a through investigation according to Comey's memo.

The DOJ had decided Flynn's inconsistencies did not rise to the level of criminal offense but Mueller's band of zealots decided otherwise as a part of their partisan political jihad.

Mueller's so-called dream team of prosecutors is so desperate to gin up convictions they destroyed the credibility of their cooperating witnesses by having them plead guilty to lying.

Let's see, wrong about funding, wrong about obstruction and the credibility of cooperating witnesses destroyed. What has Mueller's lynch mob uncovered to prove collusion with the Russians? Nothing.
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Old 01-01-2018, 12:30 AM
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He is the master of both poison and medicine, through his ambivalent power over snakes.

Poison is mentioned first. Snake is mentioned last.
Just saying.
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Old 01-01-2018, 08:34 AM
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Default Re: Trump and the Law

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Trump told Comey he hoped he could let Flynn's misstatements go.
The White House Council did not tell Donald Trump that Flynn had made innocent "misstatements" to the FBI but instead, after meeting with (acting) Attorney General Sally Yates, that Flynn was suspected of making false statements to the FBI as well as potentially violating the Logan Act, and it was possible that Flynn was guilty of one or both of these serious felonies.

Donald Trump knew that the FBI was focused on the commission of serious felonies by Michael Flynn when he asked Comey to "let Flynn go" and that was an attempt to terminate a criminal investigation by the President - or under the law it's Obstruction of Justice.

What Trump might have said later in an attempt to cover-up his obstruction of justice is irrelevant. He knew at the time he asked Comey to drop the investigation of Michael Flynn that Flynn was under a criminal investigation.

We also know that Flynn meet with the Russians to assure them that the sanctions being imposed by President Obama as a response to the Russian intervention in the US elections were going to be ended by Donald Trump. Flynn could only make that commitment based upon Donald Trump telling Flynn that he was going to end those sanctions. Every action by Donald Trump since the election has been to dismiss the investigations into the Russian intervention as being a hoax but we know it wasn't a hoax. Under Trump the US government has made no efforts to prevent future Russian intervention into our elections.

As far as I can determine there was an active agreement between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin, probably made through surrogates, that involved Russia helping Trump get elected and in return Trump would provide special favorable treatment for Russia. Christopher Steele's sources also provided intelligence (not evidence) indicating that such an agreement existed. It's up to Mueller's team, the FBI, and the CIA to determine the creditability of the intelligence as well as attempting to find the evidence to prove the allegation if true.

Russia was not going to help Trump if Trump didn't makes some kind of commitment to return the favor for Russia. Logic dictates that a Quid Pro Quo agreement either explicit or implied existed between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin because Putin wasn't going to waste his efforts if he was to get nothing in return. Trump's demonstrated he's that stupid (will do something for nothing) but Putin is a very crafty person that doesn't do anything for free.
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Old 01-01-2018, 10:03 AM
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Default Re: Trump and the Law

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The White House Council did not tell Donald Trump that Flynn had made innocent "misstatements" to the FBI but instead, after meeting with (acting) Attorney General Sally Yates, that Flynn was suspected of making false statements to the FBI as well as potentially violating the Logan Act, and it was possible that Flynn was guilty of one or both of these serious felonies.

Donald Trump knew that the FBI was focused on the commission of serious felonies by Michael Flynn when he asked Comey to "let Flynn go" and that was an attempt to terminate a criminal investigation by the President - or under the law it's Obstruction of Justice.

What Trump might have said later in an attempt to cover-up his obstruction of justice is irrelevant. He knew at the time he asked Comey to drop the investigation of Michael Flynn that Flynn was under a criminal investigation.

We also know that Flynn meet with the Russians to assure them that the sanctions being imposed by President Obama as a response to the Russian intervention in the US elections were going to be ended by Donald Trump. Flynn could only make that commitment based upon Donald Trump telling Flynn that he was going to end those sanctions. Every action by Donald Trump since the election has been to dismiss the investigations into the Russian intervention as being a hoax but we know it wasn't a hoax. Under Trump the US government has made no efforts to prevent future Russian intervention into our elections.

As far as I can determine there was an active agreement between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin, probably made through surrogates, that involved Russia helping Trump get elected and in return Trump would provide special favorable treatment for Russia. Christopher Steele's sources also provided intelligence (not evidence) indicating that such an agreement existed. It's up to Mueller's team, the FBI, and the CIA to determine the creditability of the intelligence as well as attempting to find the evidence to prove the allegation if true.

Russia was not going to help Trump if Trump didn't makes some kind of commitment to return the favor for Russia. Logic dictates that a Quid Pro Quo agreement either explicit or implied existed between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin because Putin wasn't going to waste his efforts if he was to get nothing in return. Trump's demonstrated he's that stupid (will do something for nothing) but Putin is a very crafty person that doesn't do anything for free.
Another anti Trump rant filled with factual errors and infused with resistance blind hatred. Trump never directed Comey to stop the Flynn investigation, he shared with him his hope that criminal charges would not be brought. Indeed, Comey's FBI concluded Flynn's remarks did not rise to the level of criminal offense.

But Mueller's lynch mob of prosecutors was desperate for any kind of conviction to justify their witch hunt so Flynn's misstatements became criminal. Flynn had to be sacrificed on the altar of Mueller's ambition.

Naturally the fact that Comey misinterpreted Trump's remark about Flynn as shown by a later conversation is glossed over as a cover up by Trump haters. The words of a fired, disgruntled employee carefully edited, is treated as gospel. Never mind that Comey refused to announce that Trump was not under investigation based on the absurd obligation to correct and later illegally released his meeting notes to the press in hopes of getting a special council appointed, Comey is the epitome of rectitude.

Like the fake dossier the conjecture about an agreement between Trump and Putin is nothing but a manifestation anti Trump hatred. There is no evidence to support an agreement existing or the veracity of the dossier but that doesn't give zealots a moment's pause from their hate fest.
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Old 02-28-2018, 02:07 PM
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Default Re: Trump and the Law

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Revelations about Trump explain in part why Trump and Trump's supporters are becoming so desperate and resorting to extreme measures in opposing the Mueller investigation.
You might want to avoid, in the future, such extreme (and often untrue) generalizations.

Certainly, some Trump supporters oppose Robert Mueller's investigation.

Perhaps that is because it is really (as President Trump has described it) a partisan witch hunt.

But others of us both (a) support President Trump; and (b) are happy to see the investigation proceed--as it is very likely to exonerate the man.
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Old 03-03-2018, 10:19 AM
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You might want to avoid, in the future, such extreme (and often untrue) generalizations.

Certainly, some Trump supporters oppose Robert Mueller's investigation.

Perhaps that is because it is really (as President Trump has described it) a partisan witch hunt.

But others of us both (a) support President Trump; and (b) are happy to see the investigation proceed--as it is very likely to exonerate the man.
It appears that the claim is you and many that support President Trump want to see the Mueller investigation while still calling it a partisan witch hunt.

The common modern day definition of a partisan witch hunt could probably be described as an investigation based upon spurious allegations by political opponents without substantive information to support probable cause for a criminal allegations for the purpose of discrediting the person based upon the allegation alone.

The FBI-Mueller investigation the Russian interventionism in our elections and the connections to the Trump campaign and Presidency was never based upon any spurious allegations against President Trump made by the Democrats. Instead it's been the investigation of the Trump campaign by the FBI-Mueller investigations, fact finding by the news media, and most importantly by Donald Trump himself that's lead to allegations of possible criminal activities and cover-ups.

We need to only address the "probable cause" for establishing the Russia-Trump investigation to know that there's nothing partisan related to the investigation.

It was Australian intelligence that contacted the US government about the publishing of Democratic emails on WikiLeaks at the end of July 2016 that triggered the investigation of Russia and the Trump campaigns connections to the email hacking. The Australian government informed our government that a Trump foreign policy advisor, George Papadopoulos, in May of 2016 during a social conversation with the top Australian diplomat in the UK, had claimed to have information that Russian intelligence had hacked Democratic emails and had thousands of emails that contained "dirt" on Hillary Clinton. As with all information that governments receive the source was considered and because Papadopoulos had no actual record as a source of intelligence the claim was initially not considered important enough to inform the US.

Several things stood out to the FBI when they learned about this. First was the obvious fact that when the Trump campaign learned about this illegal Russian spying against the United States in April from Papadopoulos why didn't anyone pick up the phone and call the FBI? Seriously. When an American learns about Russian spying activities against the United States you'd expect the first thing they would do is call the FBI. The head of Trump's National Security team was Senator Jeff Sessions that George Papadopoulos worked under and not even Senator Sessions picked up the phone and called the FBI.

Failure to disclose Russian spying activities by the Trump campaign obviously raised red flags at the FBI but that wasn't all.

The Trump campaign manager at the time was Paul Manafort that had been working for the Russians in the Ukraine for a decade prior to becoming campaign manager for Donald Trump. Manafort's connections with Russia and Putin oligarchs was common knowledge and Trump bringing Manafort on as his campaign manager was quite shocking to most in the political arena. In addition to Paul Manafort the Trump campaign also included Carter Page that the FBI had identified in a 2013 investigation of Russian spies in New York city where Page had been providing sensitive energy information to the Russian spies. Page had been openly claiming to be an advisor to the Kremlin (Putin) prior to joining the Trump campaign staff.

All of this brought serious concerns to the FBI that there could be a connection between the Trump campaign and the obvious efforts of the Russian support of the Trump campaign during the 2016 election and none of this had anything to do with the Democrats.

So in addition to the failure to disclose knowledge of Russian spying activities on the US to the FBI the FBI is also aware of the fact that members of the Trump campaign had worked for and with the Russians in the past. This raised additional concerns about whether the Trump campaign was working with the Russians in the Russian illegal conspiracy against the United States to effect the US elections. The criminality of the conspiracy against the United States by the Russians demanded an investigation into the Trump campaign to determine if the Trump campaign was involved in this conspiracy. The signs pointed in that being a distinct possibility.

Still nothing so far had anything to do with the Democrats.

But it got worse. When the information was finally released about the Russian interventionism on behalf of the Trump campaign in Oct 2016 there was an obvious attempt to cover up the Trump connections with Russia. Trump went from publically claiming to having phone conversations directly with Putin and claiming Putin was a nice guy to denying he'd ever talked with Putin and didn't even really know who he was. Trump went from public announcements of business deals with the Russians including the proposal for the Trump Tower Moscow announcement in 2013 to denying any business dealings with Russia. Trump claimed there were no contacts between the Trump campaign and the Russians when he knew there had been and that the FBI knew about from CIA intercepts of top Russian officials. To top even all of this Trump publically endorsed the Russian spying activities by publically calling on the Russians to hack our computer systems to recover Clinton emails that had been deleted by her attorneys when they'd been assigned the task of determining which of her emails belonged to the State Department and which of her emails were private and could be deleted.

So now the FBI had the failure of the Trump campaign to disclose information on Russian spying activities, members of the Trump campaign that had worked for and/or with the Russians in the past, candidate Trump making claims known to be false about his involvement and members of his campaign's involvement with the Russians plus the endorsement of the Russian spying activities by Donald Trump. The FBI would have been grossly negligent if it didn't investigate Donald Trump and his campaign to determine if it was actively involved in the Russian conspiracy against the United States to elect Donald Trump in 2016.

And still none of this had anything to do with the Democrats.

During this same time frame, in September of 2016, the FBI was contacted by Christopher Steele that had been privately investigating Trump's Russia connections under a contract from Fusion GPS. Steele was a long time source of creditable intelligence for the United States both from his time heading the Russia Desk at MI6 as well as after leaving MI6 and becoming a private investigator on Russia based upon his expertise and contacts he'd developed over the years. Fusion GPS is a private research company and it's core business is investigation corporations predominately related to lawsuits and business practices. Fusion GPS had previously contracted with Christopher Steele when the Fusion GPS took their research into Russia because of Steele's expertise and contacts in Russia. Fusion GPS never informs subcontractors, like Christopher Steele, of the client or the motive for the investigation because this is information that the subcontractor doesn't need to know and that if known could taint the research by the subcontractor. Fusion GPS in it's own research had found that money funding Trump's business ventures was apparently coming from Russia and once again Fusion GPS contacted Steele to conduct the investigation of Trump's dealings with the Russian knowing Steele would find out more than anyone else about this. Fusion GPS gave Steele very broad directions to basically find out anything he could on Donald Trump's involvements in Russia. There was no hint to Steele that this was anything other than the typical corporate investigation that was the core of the Fusion GPS business.

In his investigation Steele contacted his long established sources in Russia, sources that had proven to be highly reliable when providing information in the past, and was literally shocked when they began reporting back what they knew or had heard about Donald Trump's activities in Russia and with Russians. What Steele learned is contained in his memos that are now referred to as the Steele Dossier. Steele was shocked by what he learned and discussed this information with Glenn Simpson of Fusion GPS. The information, if accurate, meant that Donald Trump was susceptible to blackmail by the Russians and if elected this would create a huge national security risk for the United States. It was decided that the information was of such a huge national security threat to the United States that Steele should provide it to the FBI through existing contacts he had.

The FBI considered the source of the information just like the Australians did when they received information from Papadopoulos on the Russians hacking the Democrats emails (prior to the release of the emails. Papadopoulos was basically an unknown source and his information was questionable enough that Australia didn't believe it warranted being turned over to the US until after the emails were being published by WikiLeaks. Christopher Steele was a person known to provide highly accurate intelligence both from the time he headed the Russia Desk for MI6 and after leaving MI6 in his private career. The information in Steele's memos was considered to be very good intelligence coming out of Russia about Donald Trump.

Once again this is without any connection to the Democrats because Steele was completely insulated from any contacts with or knowledge about the Democrats opposition research into Donald Trump by Fusion GPS.

Non-disclosure by the Trump campaign about Russian spying, connections to the Russians in the Trump campaign, cover-up of connections by members of the Trump campaign with Russians, false statements by Trump about his own connections with Russia and Putin, endorsement of the Russian spying by Donald Trump, and very creditable intelligence provided by an expert on Russia and all of this without any connection to the Democrats.
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Old 03-03-2018, 01:39 PM
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i didn't read every post here.
So can someone tell me if i've got this story right.

Trumps was told Flynn MIGHT have broken Logan and Did lie to the FBI.
Trump talked to Comey on several occasions and asked him if he'd "do him a favor" and FAGITABOUTIT my friend. Comey did not do that. And MAY HAVE been fired becasue of it. So Mueller was Appointed instead and has vigorously CONTINUED all the alleged Russia and collusion horrors without any obvious hindrance.

So trump should be ... in serious legal trouble... for "asking a fava" and MAYBE firing one guy, even though it's had no real effect on "justice" or on the year plus long ongoing investigations.
Because Trump knew Flylnn MIGHT be guilty when he asked for the "fava".
it all equals
"Obstruction of Justice"

Does that sum up this threads Charges against Trump?
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Old 03-04-2018, 08:36 AM
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Default Re: Trump and the Law

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
i didn't read every post here.
So can someone tell me if i've got this story right.

Trumps was told Flynn MIGHT have broken Logan and Did lie to the FBI.
Trump talked to Comey on several occasions and asked him if he'd "do him a favor" and FAGITABOUTIT my friend. Comey did not do that. And MAY HAVE been fired becasue of it. So Mueller was Appointed instead and has vigorously CONTINUED all the alleged Russia and collusion horrors without any obvious hindrance.

So trump should be ... in serious legal trouble... for "asking a fava" and MAYBE firing one guy, even though it's had no real effect on "justice" or on the year plus long ongoing investigations.
Because Trump knew Flylnn MIGHT be guilty when he asked for the "fava".
it all equals
"Obstruction of Justice"

Does that sum up this threads Charges against Trump?
On the obstruction of justice issue alone this doesn't quite sum up the entire legal case. Trump has also called upon members of the GOP to shut down tie Congressional investigations as well. Trump has worked with Devin Nunes to fabricate false stories to disrupt the investigation including Nunes promoting the false allegation that Obama wiretapped the Trump campaign at Trump Tower and the false claim that the FISA warrant for Carter Page was an improperly partisan warrant. Trump's condemned his Attorney General for properly recusing himself because by recusal Jeff Sessions couldn't shield Trump from being investigated. In the Trump cover-up of the Trump Tower meeting Trump's long time associate suggested that Donald Trump Jr's emails could be hidden from investigators, clearly attempting to obstruct justice. Trump has also attacked others at the FBI such as Andrew McCabe that can provide testimony supporting Comey's memos on Trump's conversations with Comey. Trump's political attack on McCabe was so offensive to McCabe that McCabe, a career FBI official with an impeccable record, retired because he didn't have to put up with Trump's abusive behavior. Trump has also called upon the heads of the NSA and CIA to publically exonerate Trump of any wrongdoing - that they refused to do. Trump also issued an order to fire Mueller and only the threat of the White House counsel prevented that from happening last year.

This is just the tip of the iceberg on the foundation for obstruction of justice charges that come to mind from memory but there's been much more.

That's just one of the potential charges that the Mueller investigation is looking into on Donald Trump personally. There is, of course, the possible quit pro quo agreement between Trump and Putin made through surrogates where Trump would end economic sanctions against Russia in exchange for Russia's release of the Democratic emails and Russia's social media efforts to support Trump's campaign. There's extensive circumstantial evidence that this secret deal exists and that it also appears to be much more extensive than just economic sanctions relief.

There also continues to be "secret meetings" between Trump and Russians that we only learn about when the Moscow press reveals them. The Trump White House never releases information about these meetings taking place and only admits to them when the press learns about them from Russian media sources.

Trump is exposed to numerous criminal charges and with Mueller's top investigative team they're not going to leave any stone unturned in putting together the evidence. It's no wonder that Trump goes berserk every time there's new information coming out of the Mueller investigation. He's potentially facing spending the rest of his life in prison because he thought he could get away with breaking the law as the president.
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Old 03-04-2018, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: Trump and the Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
i didn't read every post here.
So can someone tell me if i've got this story right.

Trumps was told Flynn MIGHT have broken Logan and Did lie to the FBI.
Trump talked to Comey on several occasions and asked him if he'd "do him a favor" and FAGITABOUTIT my friend. Comey did not do that. And MAY HAVE been fired becasue of it. So Mueller was Appointed instead and has vigorously CONTINUED all the alleged Russia and collusion horrors without any obvious hindrance.

So trump should be ... in serious legal trouble... for "asking a fava" and MAYBE firing one guy, even though it's had no real effect on "justice" or on the year plus long ongoing investigations.
Because Trump knew Flylnn MIGHT be guilty when he asked for the "fava".
it all equals
"Obstruction of Justice"

Does that sum up this threads Charges against Trump?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
On the obstruction of justice issue alone this doesn't quite sum up the entire legal case.
so you say there's more than "Obstruction" or what looks like Ineffective obstruction.


•Trump asked members of congress to stop investigations. But they didn't .
• Trump made up some stories about Obama wire taping. but some of the story was in fact true as well correct? Trump and his people WERE being wire tapped during the campaign correct?
• the FISA warrent. But Wasn't that warrant partly based on questionable info that came from RUSSIAN sources, via the British spy, paid for, obtained by, the Hillary campaign? correct?
•Trump said it was partisan. OK, is that legal obstruction or a crime?
•Trump condemned his Attorney General for properly recusing himself. So Session DID NOT protect him. So are Trumps condemnations a crime? Can you really assign motive and make charges stick for that?
•Trump covered up "trump tower meeting" , OK and there's little to nothing that came of that meeting, at worse most experts says it was UNWISE and Maybe sorta kinda could have been part of a a possible larger "collusion.".
•Trump's Associate (not Trump?) "SUGGESTED" to cover up emails. OK, did they do it?
•Trump bad mouthed and pressured FBI agents. Yes, it seems he does that to everyone. Thats who he is. But DID they YIELD to the pressure? So far it seems the answer is no again.
•Trump asked for NSA and CIA to say a good word for him. Yes. But Did they do it? You say no they did not. Did he fire any of them for not doing it? doesn't look like it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
This is just the tip of the iceberg on the foundation for obstruction of justice charges that come to mind from memory but there's been much more.
I See Trump being a bully and blow hard but SO FAR nothing that rises to the level of HARD obstruction of Justice Charges. But I'm no lawyer, But to me it seems there might be enough to go to court over, buuuuut i wouldn't bet money that he'd be convicted on the above info. would you?

If your trying to say He should not have DONE any of the things listed above. I agree. But SO FAR it's seems he's operating in the murky gray areas of politics, just barely across the line legally in some areas. Overall it looks like crap. but IMO not a Hard case of Obstruction or anything else.

And i have to mention here that if the SUGGESTION of covering up Trump Jr's email equals obstruction of Justice then what crime did Hillary and team commit when they literally smashed with hammers laptops and tablets, and used DigitalScrub software to erase hardrives and emails?
Not to mention the manipulating of the Democratic primaries.

Seems to me that if Trump's actions are criminal then Hillarys are as well, in fact more so.
__________________
Hope is the dream of the waking man.
Aristotle

For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
Job 14:6-8

Last edited by mr wonder; 03-04-2018 at 09:11 PM..
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